EPL 2019-2020

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Re: EPL 2019-2020

Post by haywood djablowme »

Nice One Cyril wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:51 pm
haywood djablowme wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:24 am
haywood djablowme wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:26 pm
ozzie owl wrote:How did VAR not issue a red card for Lo Celso stamp on Azpilicueta?
100%

Aubameyang was dismissed earlier this season for a similar challenge by the VAR, resulting in a 3 game suspension! VAR inconsistency highlighted again.
I hunted this post down to highlight again, after this mornings game, the inconsistent decisions being made with the use of the VAR system..
You wouldn't have had to hunt too far since it was one of your own posts. :lol:

I take your point about the inconsistency, but you cannot blame that on VAR, they don't make those decisions they just inform the ref that he might have missed something and that he should look at the monitor. Refs have always been inconsistent, often even the same ref in a single game, that's why they get stick.
So on that theory Cyril, why did they not inform the ref about the Vardy incident which he missed.. should of been a straight red card
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Re: EPL 2019-2020

Post by Nice One Cyril »

haywood djablowme wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:12 pm
Nice One Cyril wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:51 pm
haywood djablowme wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:24 am
haywood djablowme wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:26 pm
ozzie owl wrote:How did VAR not issue a red card for Lo Celso stamp on Azpilicueta?
100%

Aubameyang was dismissed earlier this season for a similar challenge by the VAR, resulting in a 3 game suspension! VAR inconsistency highlighted again.
I hunted this post down to highlight again, after this mornings game, the inconsistent decisions being made with the use of the VAR system..
You wouldn't have had to hunt too far since it was one of your own posts. :lol:

I take your point about the inconsistency, but you cannot blame that on VAR, they don't make those decisions they just inform the ref that he might have missed something and that he should look at the monitor. Refs have always been inconsistent, often even the same ref in a single game, that's why they get stick.
So on that theory Cyril, why did they not inform the ref about the Vardy incident which he missed.. should of been a straight red card
Accidental.
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Re: EPL 2019-2020

Post by haywood djablowme »

Nice One Cyril wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:35 am
haywood djablowme wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:12 pm
Nice One Cyril wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:51 pm
haywood djablowme wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:24 am
haywood djablowme wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:26 pm
ozzie owl wrote:How did VAR not issue a red card for Lo Celso stamp on Azpilicueta?
100%

Aubameyang was dismissed earlier this season for a similar challenge by the VAR, resulting in a 3 game suspension! VAR inconsistency highlighted again.
I hunted this post down to highlight again, after this mornings game, the inconsistent decisions being made with the use of the VAR system..
You wouldn't have had to hunt too far since it was one of your own posts. :lol:

I take your point about the inconsistency, but you cannot blame that on VAR, they don't make those decisions they just inform the ref that he might have missed something and that he should look at the monitor. Refs have always been inconsistent, often even the same ref in a single game, that's why they get stick.
So on that theory Cyril, why did they not inform the ref about the Vardy incident which he missed.. should of been a straight red card
Accidental.
:clap: well played Cyril, I guess you could argue all incidents that occur during football matches are 'accidental' and there was no intent from the player to commit what they did..
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Re: EPL 2019-2020

Post by Nice One Cyril »

I wrote this when he was appointed in November.
Nice One Cyril wrote:I can foresee a period of better results (not difficult) becoming more solid at the back and midfield, followed by a plateau, followed by a sacking and giant payoff. I can only hope I'm wrong.
My signature says perfectly how I feel about football and Mourinho is the antithesis of that. Now I'm praying for the sacking :(

To be honest, I'm almost at the end with the Premier League, VAR is just sucking the spirit ouf of the game and the joy out of watching. It's not the technology per se, it's the forensic examination of every little detail by two referees and then still getting it so wrong, there's just no feel for the game. I've always accepted that some decisions will go for you and some against, but they have to go back to just one ref on the pitch making every decision with the help of a pitchside monitor to check contentious issues. No need to draw silly coloured lines across the pitch, watch a slo mo and then make up your mind on what you see, and scrap this stupid handball rule and go back to letting the ref decide what's deliberate. Bournemouth had a perfectly good goal chalked off today as did Spurs the other day, it's just ruining the game.
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Re: EPL 2019-2020

Post by Bomber »

Nice One Cyril wrote: Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:32 am I wrote this when he was appointed in November.
Nice One Cyril wrote:I can foresee a period of better results (not difficult) becoming more solid at the back and midfield, followed by a plateau, followed by a sacking and giant payoff. I can only hope I'm wrong.
My signature says perfectly how I feel about football and Mourinho is the antithesis of that. Now I'm praying for the sacking :(

To be honest, I'm almost at the end with the Premier League, VAR is just sucking the spirit ouf of the game and the joy out of watching. It's not the technology per se, it's the forensic examination of every little detail by two referees and then still getting it so wrong, there's just no feel for the game. I've always accepted that some decisions will go for you and some against, but they have to go back to just one ref on the pitch making every decision with the help of a pitchside monitor to check contentious issues. No need to draw silly coloured lines across the pitch, watch a slo mo and then make up your mind on what you see, and scrap this stupid handball rule and go back to letting the ref decide what's deliberate. Bournemouth had a perfectly good goal chalked off today as did Spurs the other day, it's just ruining the game.
Good post and agree re the slow kill of the fabric of the game. Human error is part of sport. Yes, we moan and groan if bad decisions go against us, but I'd rather that than what is creeping into the game. Its almost like the world has gone mad in so many ways, you wonder if ever common sense will return as the norm.
Wifey and I are talking quite seriously to move/live on a Med island somewhere upon retirement to try and escape this "new normal". Research already under way.
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Re: EPL 2019-2020

Post by Victoria's Secret »

Human error is great, did anyone see the athletics last night?

I still don't wnat the next season to start with no fans, that has changed the whole game.

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Re: EPL 2019-2020

Post by Nice One Cyril »

Bomber wrote: Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:40 am
Nice One Cyril wrote: Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:32 am I wrote this when he was appointed in November.
Nice One Cyril wrote:I can foresee a period of better results (not difficult) becoming more solid at the back and midfield, followed by a plateau, followed by a sacking and giant payoff. I can only hope I'm wrong.
My signature says perfectly how I feel about football and Mourinho is the antithesis of that. Now I'm praying for the sacking :(

To be honest, I'm almost at the end with the Premier League, VAR is just sucking the spirit ouf of the game and the joy out of watching. It's not the technology per se, it's the forensic examination of every little detail by two referees and then still getting it so wrong, there's just no feel for the game. I've always accepted that some decisions will go for you and some against, but they have to go back to just one ref on the pitch making every decision with the help of a pitchside monitor to check contentious issues. No need to draw silly coloured lines across the pitch, watch a slo mo and then make up your mind on what you see, and scrap this stupid handball rule and go back to letting the ref decide what's deliberate. Bournemouth had a perfectly good goal chalked off today as did Spurs the other day, it's just ruining the game.
Good post and agree re the slow kill of the fabric of the game. Human error is part of sport. Yes, we moan and groan if bad decisions go against us, but I'd rather that than what is creeping into the game. Its almost like the world has gone mad in so many ways, you wonder if ever common sense will return as the norm.
Wifey and I are talking quite seriously to move/live on a Med island somewhere upon retirement to try and escape this "new normal". Research already under way.
The way things are going you could probably buy Greece. :lol:
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Re: EPL 2019-2020

Post by Bomber »

Nice One Cyril wrote: Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:38 pm
Bomber wrote: Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:40 am
Nice One Cyril wrote: Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:32 am I wrote this when he was appointed in November.
Nice One Cyril wrote:I can foresee a period of better results (not difficult) becoming more solid at the back and midfield, followed by a plateau, followed by a sacking and giant payoff. I can only hope I'm wrong.
My signature says perfectly how I feel about football and Mourinho is the antithesis of that. Now I'm praying for the sacking :(

To be honest, I'm almost at the end with the Premier League, VAR is just sucking the spirit ouf of the game and the joy out of watching. It's not the technology per se, it's the forensic examination of every little detail by two referees and then still getting it so wrong, there's just no feel for the game. I've always accepted that some decisions will go for you and some against, but they have to go back to just one ref on the pitch making every decision with the help of a pitchside monitor to check contentious issues. No need to draw silly coloured lines across the pitch, watch a slo mo and then make up your mind on what you see, and scrap this stupid handball rule and go back to letting the ref decide what's deliberate. Bournemouth had a perfectly good goal chalked off today as did Spurs the other day, it's just ruining the game.
Good post and agree re the slow kill of the fabric of the game. Human error is part of sport. Yes, we moan and groan if bad decisions go against us, but I'd rather that than what is creeping into the game. Its almost like the world has gone mad in so many ways, you wonder if ever common sense will return as the norm.
Wifey and I are talking quite seriously to move/live on a Med island somewhere upon retirement to try and escape this "new normal". Research already under way.
The way things are going you could probably buy Greece. :lol:
Ssshhh, don't let on. Corfu, Rhodes (and Malta) top of the list at present.
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Re: EPL 2019-2020

Post by predrag »

Last nights Man U penalty awarded against Villa was truly ridiculous,if VAR is to stay it has to be run by a AI program with 0.1 % chance of mistakes,humans are not up to it,favoritism still in leagues for big clubs will never be eradicated otherwise!

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Re: EPL 2019-2020

Post by Rookie »

Man U copped a bit of their own medicine this morning by conceding a 96th goal to draw 2-2, makes the final few games even more intriguing

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Re: EPL 2019-2020

Post by eagleboy »

Arsenal 2-1 Liverpool: Reds' hopes of breaking Premier League points record ended.

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Re: EPL 2019-2020

Post by Nice One Cyril »

eagleboy wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:55 am Arsenal 2-1 Liverpool: Reds' hopes of breaking Premier League points record ended.
Love the way VVD blames everyone else for his shiraz up. :lol:
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Re: EPL 2019-2020

Post by haywood djablowme »

Inconsistency of VAR on show for all to see again this morning...

Would like somebody to show me the difference between Eddies red card v Leicester last week & AA's tackle 10mins into the 2nd half
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Re: EPL 2019-2020

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eagleboy wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:55 am Arsenal 2-1 Liverpool: Reds' hopes of breaking Premier League points record ended.
No biggie

Last two seasons with couple to play overall not bad:
W - 60
D - 10
L - 4

If we can average that out over next few seasons, it'll do me. ;-)
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Re: EPL 2019-2020

Post by Nice One Cyril »

haywood djablowme wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:31 am Inconsistency of VAR on show for all to see again this morning...

Would like somebody to show me the difference between Eddies red card v Leicester last week & AA's tackle 10mins into the 2nd half
Perhaps a bit lower than Nketiah's tackle, but in cases like that it's not VAR per se, it's the people using it to make decisions. All refs see things differently and make what appear to be inconsistent decisions, so having two refs for every game is just going to double the inconsistency.
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Re: EPL 2019-2020

Post by haywood djablowme »

Nice One Cyril wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:59 am
haywood djablowme wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:31 am Inconsistency of VAR on show for all to see again this morning...

Would like somebody to show me the difference between Eddies red card v Leicester last week & AA's tackle 10mins into the 2nd half
Perhaps a bit lower than Nketiah's tackle, but in cases like that it's not VAR per se, it's the people using it to make decisions. All refs see things differently and make what appear to be inconsistent decisions, so having two refs for every game is just going to double the inconsistency.
Hang on Cyril.. Nketiah receives a yellow card for a tackle, which is then reviewed by the VAR, to then ask the match official to review the pitch side TV screen, then after reviewing he upgrades the yellow to red... this morning VAR did not even review the tackle - which in all honesty is identical to the one last week. You last week yourself talked about it being the VARs job to review something which may have been missed by the match official.. why then this morning did the same not happen?? Inconsistency between officials I get, however if its VAR's job to review all incidents that occur during 90+ minutes of football, why then did this not occur this morning, when a week before it did. The issue to me is in the use of the VAR, when and when it doesn't get used
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Re: EPL 2019-2020

Post by Nice One Cyril »

haywood djablowme wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:15 am
Nice One Cyril wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:59 am
haywood djablowme wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:31 am Inconsistency of VAR on show for all to see again this morning...

Would like somebody to show me the difference between Eddies red card v Leicester last week & AA's tackle 10mins into the 2nd half
Perhaps a bit lower than Nketiah's tackle, but in cases like that it's not VAR per se, it's the people using it to make decisions. All refs see things differently and make what appear to be inconsistent decisions, so having two refs for every game is just going to double the inconsistency.
Hang on Cyril.. Nketiah receives a yellow card for a tackle, which is then reviewed by the VAR, to then ask the match official to review the pitch side TV screen, then after reviewing he upgrades the yellow to red... this morning VAR did not even review the tackle - which in all honesty is identical to the one last week. You last week yourself talked about it being the VARs job to review something which may have been missed by the match official.. why then this morning did the same not happen?? Inconsistency between officials I get, however if its VAR's job to review all incidents that occur during 90+ minutes of football, why then did this not occur this morning, when a week before it did. The issue to me is in the use of the VAR, when and when it doesn't get used
Sorry, yes I agree with all that, but it's still the humans, not the technology, that is at fault for the interpretation. Looking at them both Nketiah was higher and stretching more than AA, but I wouldn't have complained if the ref had had a second look.
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Re: EPL 2019-2020

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Re: EPL 2019-2020

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VAR as technology is mute, it doesn't make any decisions, just shows pretty accurately what happened, it's the clowns looking at the footage who are mucking it up. The guys in Stockley Park are simply not required and, although I don't like it, what we should do is follow tennis and give each captain x number of challenges where they can effectively force the ref to go to the monitor and watch a slo mo. If the ref who saw it in real time, still thinks it''s not a pen after watching the replay, then fine, I can accept that, but not this handing off of all responsibility to some faceless bureaucrat in an industrial estate near Heathrow, who must be off having a slash or making a cup of tea when some incidents happen.

Watch the Palace v United game this morning. How is Zaha not fouled? Having a challenge system would surely solve this.
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Re: EPL 2019-2020

Post by Victoria's Secret »

Re the tennis situation, how woud that work?

Look at the Liverpool v City game, City thought they should have had a penalty, we go down the other end and score. Who stops it, and when?

Tennis you can replay the point.
  • The bordeline offside is harsh, but we all said you are either on or off, in practice this hasnt really worked.
    The shoulder...how can you be called offside for having your shoulder in play, yet you have goals chalked off for the same part of your body touching the
ball?

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Re: EPL 2019-2020

Post by ozzie owl »

haywood djablowme wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:31 am Inconsistency of VAR on show for all to see again this morning...

Would like somebody to show me the difference between Eddies red card v Leicester last week & AA's tackle 10mins into the 2nd half
Red card any day of the week.

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Re: EPL 2019-2020

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Champions at last wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:00 pm Re the tennis situation, how woud that work?

Look at the Liverpool v City game, City thought they should have had a penalty, we go down the other end and score. Who stops it, and when?

Tennis you can replay the point.
For most incidents there's a natural break in play and, so long as you only give them say, two challenges, you'd think it would stop any frivolous challenges, but I accept there would need to be some ruling on how long after an incident a challenge could take place. In that particular incident, if the ref deemed City's claim to be a penalty, then Liverpool's goal would have been chalked off, because so little time elapsed. No system is going to be perfect, but anything that gets back to just one ref, whilst still keeping the VAR as his extra eyes, has to be better than what we've got.
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Re: EPL 2019-2020

Post by Nice One Cyril »

Champions at last wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:00 pm Re the tennis situation, how woud that work?

Look at the Liverpool v City game, City thought they should have had a penalty, we go down the other end and score. Who stops it, and when?

Tennis you can replay the point.
  • The bordeline offside is harsh, but we all said you are either on or off, in practice this hasnt really worked.
    The shoulder...how can you be called offside for having your shoulder in play, yet you have goals chalked off for the same part of your body touching the
ball?
The offside problem is relatively easy to fix, although you'll always have marginal decisions, by just making the feet count. It would also speed things up considerably with only a small part of the body to consider.
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Re: EPL 2019-2020

Post by Victoria's Secret »

Nice One Cyril wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:54 pm
Champions at last wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:00 pm Re the tennis situation, how woud that work?

Look at the Liverpool v City game, City thought they should have had a penalty, we go down the other end and score. Who stops it, and when?

Tennis you can replay the point.
For most incidents there's a natural break in play and, so long as you only give them say, two challenges, you'd think it would stop any frivolous challenges, but I accept there would need to be some ruling on how long after an incident a challenge could take place. In that particular incident, if the ref deemed City's claim to be a penalty, then Liverpool's goal would have been chalked off, because so little time elapsed. No system is going to be perfect, but anything that gets back to just one ref, whilst still keeping the VAR as his extra eyes, has to be better than what we've got.
I accept it's a different sport so we can't copy it, but the cricket system works, with umpires call too. Cricket and tennis use the technology well.

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Re: EPL 2019-2020

Post by haywood djablowme »

I did like Wenger's suggestion recently.. what part of the body makes contact with ball to score a goal, is in an onside position, then the goal stands. ie score with your left foot, but you right foot toe is in an offside position, goal stands!
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Re: EPL 2019-2020

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haywood djablowme wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:54 pm I did like Wenger's suggestion recently.. what part of the body makes contact with ball to score a goal, is in an onside position, then the goal stands. ie score with your left foot, but you right foot toe is in an offside position, goal stands!
How does that work when the assist is offside?

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Re: EPL 2019-2020

Post by Nice One Cyril »

haywood djablowme wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:54 pm I did like Wenger's suggestion recently.. what part of the body makes contact with ball to score a goal, is in an onside position, then the goal stands. ie score with your left foot, but you right foot toe is in an offside position, goal stands!
Dopey Goon, we're trying to simplify it, not tie everyone in knots. Make it just the feet and it's more or less sorted.
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Re: EPL 2019-2020

Post by Bomber »

Easy fix. Can VAR
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Re: EPL 2019-2020

Post by Nice One Cyril »

Bomber wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:04 pm Easy fix. Can VAR
That would be my preference as well, but I'm working on the premise that those who introduced it are unlikely to admit they've made a mistake. It's about making the best of a bad job now.
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Con M
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Re: EPL 2019-2020

Post by Con M »

Arsenal into yet another F.A. Cup Final with a disciplined 2-0 win over ManCity in this morning’s Semi.

Not a bad week with the win over Liverpool as well to boost morale.

Still missing a creative midfielder positioned forward of Xhaka and Ceballos to “make the play”.

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