Hillsborough Report

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Re: Hillsborough Report

Post by Los Del Eague »

God is an Englishman wrote:
BANYA wrote:
I understand that with the 2nd part and obviously it wasn't possible but have always been intrigued as to why not. Always wondered if the people right at the back realised what was happening in the front.

I know this is not politically correct but not drunk and not ticketless - this was football in the 80's where most lots were drunk and ticketless.
1st part, there is a longish tunnel from the gates to the terrace from memory, it was horrible the year before walking thru it so no, the people at the back would have no idea whatsoever what was going on inside and at the front sadly.

2nd part...I totally agree as I like you were one of them for many a game. Drinking beforehand was part and parcel of watching your team in away games, and going without a ticket was normal too so to say there were none is not actually correct.
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Re: Hillsborough Report

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Chilling first hand account from Brian Reade, required reading even for non-football fans.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/ ... de-1318730
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Re: Hillsborough Report

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The Kop wrote:Chilling first hand account from Brian Reade, required reading even for non-football fans.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/ ... de-1318730

pass
:wink:

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Re: Hillsborough Report

Post by Ernie Cooksey »

il principe wrote:front page of The Sun this morning (small amount of credit where it's due):

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:evil: Those fu king c nts making money out of the tragedy AGAIN. Anyone with a brain and a heart would leave it right on the shelf.
The audacity to put a headline like that when they published nothing but contrived Barossa Pearl all those years ago. :twisted: Cunts.

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Re: Hillsborough Report

Post by Derek »

Blueblood wrote:
il principe wrote:front page of The Sun this morning (small amount of credit where it's due):

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:evil: Those fu king c nts making money out of the tragedy AGAIN. Anyone with a brain and a heart would leave it right on the shelf.
The audacity to put a headline like that when they published nothing but contrived Barossa Pearl all those years ago. :twisted: Cunts.

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Re: Hillsborough Report

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Far too little, far too late.
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Re: Hillsborough Report

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Only truly working class people who lived through the Thatcher years will understand how this was allowed to happen. Thatcher created a police force that acted as her private army. The police knew that they could act with impunity. The Murdoch press compounded her authority. All this done under the guise of so called freedom and the market system.

The reasons the scousers hate the tories is the same reason i do. They are scum.

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Re: Hillsborough Report

Post by God is an Englishman »

harrycripps wrote:Only truly working class people who lived through the Thatcher years will understand how this was allowed to happen. Thatcher created a police force that acted as her private army. The police knew that they could act with impunity. The Murdoch press compounded her authority. All this done under the guise of so called freedom and the market system.

The reasons the scousers hate the tories is the same reason i do. They are scum.
Such a brilliant username but disagree about the tories. Thatcher and the tories were fantastic and something the country is in desperate need of right now. Her ability to stand up to the unions stopped the country just being ground to a halt.

I also disagree with the comments about the Sun from Blueblood as well - they were damned if they did and damned if they didn't. Can you imagine the uproar if they'd have pretended it didn't exist. They even printed an apology and still they're in the wrong.
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Re: Hillsborough Report

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harrycripps wrote:Only truly working class people who lived through the Thatcher years will understand how this was allowed to happen. Thatcher created a police force that acted as her private army. The police knew that they could act with impunity. The Murdoch press compounded her authority. All this done under the guise of so called freedom and the market system.

The reasons the scousers hate the tories is the same reason i do. They are scum.
Utter 8ollocks Harry - the reason the scousers hate the Tories is that they wouldn't let them sit on their backsides draining the system hiding behind unions. A bit of hardline discipline now that tories stood up for wouldn't go astray these days where there is no respect for law and scrotes across the country getting away with bashing grannies for their next fix.

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Re: Hillsborough Report

Post by harrycripps »

Old Redback wrote:
harrycripps wrote:Only truly working class people who lived through the Thatcher years will understand how this was allowed to happen. Thatcher created a police force that acted as her private army. The police knew that they could act with impunity. The Murdoch press compounded her authority. All this done under the guise of so called freedom and the market system.

The reasons the scousers hate the tories is the same reason i do. They are scum.
Utter 8ollocks Harry - the reason the scousers hate the Tories is that they wouldn't let them sit on their backsides draining the system hiding behind unions. A bit of hardline discipline now that tories stood up for wouldn't go astray these days where there is no respect for law and scrotes across the country getting away with bashing grannies for their next fix.
So what you are saying Constable Old Redneck is that the 91 grannie beating crack heads deserved to be treated as hooligans as they were being crushed to death.

From your response its no wonder its taken so long for the truth to come out when the system has supporters like you. Now don't you have a Klu Klux Klan meeting to go to?

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Re: Hillsborough Report

Post by Nice One Cyril »

That's a long old bow you're drawing Harry, it's a tragedy that 96 people lost their lives, but I really cannot see how you can blame Thatcher. I think you're letting your political beliefs colour your judgement, I'm pretty sure the accident would have happened sooner or later whomever was in power.

The South Yorks Police are a different matter, but the plods on the ground were just doing what they were told, it's the top brass that need to be punished.
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Re: Hillsborough Report

Post by Ernie Cooksey »

God is an Englishman wrote:
harrycripps wrote:Only truly working class people who lived through the Thatcher years will understand how this was allowed to happen. Thatcher created a police force that acted as her private army. The police knew that they could act with impunity. The Murdoch press compounded her authority. All this done under the guise of so called freedom and the market system.

The reasons the scousers hate the tories is the same reason i do. They are scum.
Such a brilliant username but disagree about the tories. Thatcher and the tories were fantastic and something the country is in desperate need of right now. Her ability to stand up to the unions stopped the country just being ground to a halt.

I also disagree with the comments about the Sun from Blueblood as well - they were damned if they did and damned if they didn't. Can you imagine the uproar if they'd have pretended it didn't exist. They even printed an apology and still they're in the wrong.
They're selling an apology.

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Re: Hillsborough Report

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Hillsborough was the acme of real Thatcherism

by Guy Rundle
“The Real Truth” shouted the headline of The Sun today, as it revealed the truth of the Hillsborough disaster, the 1989 catastrophe at a Sheffield football stadium that claimed 96 Liverpool fans who were crushed to death during an FA Cup semi-final. Due to incompetent crowd control, an unsafe stadium and inept emergency management, thousands of fans were crushed between walls and fences in the spectator area.



The disaster itself was bad enough, but what followed was atrocious: the police and ambulance services, aware that their ineptitude had cost many lives, went on a sustained campaign against Liverpool FC fans, alleging that many of those killed had been too drunk to manage, that they had assaulted ambulance crews and urinated on victims.

Such lies were convenient for a Tory government whose decade-long neglect of the north had essentially put a Labour-Tory divide through the middle of the country. Equally eager to jump on the bloodwagon was the Murdoch press, through its 3.5-million selling The Sun, which repeated the official lies under the bold headline “The Truth”. Then-Sun editor Kelvin MacKenzie insulted the people of Liverpool as a bunch of whiners and scroungers, and Boris Johnson, then “editor” of The Spectator, joined in.

The insults were, it is no exaggeration to say, a blood libel. They were a product of the social division created by Thatcherism, and the reason that her era remains public anathema for all parties, even as she herself remains an idol. The Hillsborough victims were refused the most basic solidarity due to the dead, a sense of shared fate in rotten luck. The desperate assault on their humanity was a measure of the nihilism that lurked at the heart of the Thatcherite project, its brute belief that “there was no such thing as society” — and hence no such thing as shared meaning.

Had the attacks not been so brutal, the relatives and survivors of the Hillsborough disaster might not have been so determined to fight for justice, might have retreated into their private grief. Instead they contested the atomised anti-vision of Thatcherism with a campaign lasting more than two decades. An immediate report into the disaster, known as the Taylor Report, had dispelled many of the myths about drunken and loutish fans, but it had not shone a light on the behaviour of police and ambulance services.

Having promised a fresh inquiry while in opposition, in 1997 Labour offered only a process known as a “scrutiny”, which did not re-examine existing evidence, sided with the police, and managed to gratuitously insult survivor families all over again. Only in the dying days of the Brown government, did northern MP Andy Burnham succeed in having a full inquiry re-established.

It is this inquiry, headed by the Bishop of Liverpool, that has now delivered its findings, and they are disturbing and heartbreaking. The inquiry, which interviewed and re-interviewed hundreds of victims and witnesses, established first that the police had been inept, negligent and apathetic in managing the crowd — actually sending hundreds of people into an area where they became jammed between fences, and crushed to death by the press of the crowd, that ambulance services had not bothered to query police instructions not to drive onto the pitch and attend to the injured (only three ambulances out of 40 defied the orders and acted on their own initiative), and that, appallingly, more than 40 of the near hundred dead would have survived if their injuries had been attended to.

Following that, another process took over — a cover-up of mammoth proportions involving the police and ambulance authorities, who doctored more than 200 individual statements regarding the event, to remove any sign of official fault, and the then-MP for Sheffield Hallam, Tory (and now Sir) Irvine Patnick, who fed false statements to the press. There is now a move on to have Patnick’s knighthood rescinded, just as the victims’ families continue to press for criminal charges to be laid against many of the (still-serving) police officers involved in the cover-up.

The Hillsborough judgment has transfixed the UK for two days, prompting a variety of lame apologies and justifications from The Sun, Boris J, etc. The tragedy was bad enough in terms of human cost, but it is what it represents in social and historical terms that has made it so impossible to be dismissed. Hillsborough came at the end of a decade that had seen the riots of the early ’80s in the north, the destruction of industry, the war against the miners, and the refusal to make any significant reinvestment in ruined cities.

The increasingly harsh individualist rhetoric by which a division between the fortunes of the south and the north was made legitimate, led inevitably to an attitude in which northerners were sub-humans, responsible for suffering largely caused by indifferent and inept authorities. The attitude was enforced by police who had become alienated from their own society by the bitter divisions of the miners’ strike, and rendered nihilistic by years of widespread and unchecked corruption.

Hillsborough was the acme of real Thatcherism — one in which a corrupt police force, corrupt state and corrupt oligarchic media defined a “social enemy”, and poured all the hatred and frustration of a divided society onto their heads. That they chose the most abject of victims was no coincidence — the greater the withdrawal of human sympathy, the more that a rigid and life-denying political ethos could be reinforced. Sun journalists of the time spoke of the absolute mania with which editor Kelvin MacKenzie drove the Hillsborough campaign, against all evidence; the degree of complicity, with dozens upon dozens of officials involved, was so large as to go beyond any rational calculus.

But though it is of little comfort to the victims, it might be said that the event was a turning point in the fortunes of Margaret Thatcher. Within a year or two, the poll tax would break her, and see her unceremoniously dumped, but it may well have been the Hillsborough events that began the process, whereby people began to understand the lethal intent of the Tory ideal.

If David Cameron could not summon a majority of seats in his own right against a discredited Labour government in 2010, it is because the north is a closed book to the Tories these days, their hold on power surprisingly tenuous. Most citizens of Liverpool would approve of that, but who would rate it as worth the cost, the images forever unscrolling on video loops, the faces pressed against the cyclone wire, open-mouthed in horror and surprise breathing their last, the broken limbs lying on the grass in the afternoon sun, while, like pallbearers, the white ambulances waited in a line outside.
http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/09/14/run ... atcherism/
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Re: Hillsborough Report

Post by God is an Englishman »

Blueblood wrote:
God is an Englishman wrote:
harrycripps wrote:Only truly working class people who lived through the Thatcher years will understand how this was allowed to happen. Thatcher created a police force that acted as her private army. The police knew that they could act with impunity. The Murdoch press compounded her authority. All this done under the guise of so called freedom and the market system.

The reasons the scousers hate the tories is the same reason i do. They are scum.
Such a brilliant username but disagree about the tories. Thatcher and the tories were fantastic and something the country is in desperate need of right now. Her ability to stand up to the unions stopped the country just being ground to a halt.

I also disagree with the comments about the Sun from Blueblood as well - they were damned if they did and damned if they didn't. Can you imagine the uproar if they'd have pretended it didn't exist. They even printed an apology and still they're in the wrong.
They're selling an apology.

damned if they do, damned if they don't
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Re: Hillsborough Report

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it seems that thatcher is a terrorist.............
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Re: Hillsborough Report

Post by God is an Englishman »

MegaBonus wrote:it seems that thatcher is a terrorist.............

best prime minister of my lifetime.

smashed the argies :D
smashed the unions :D

hated football fans :twisted:
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Re: Hillsborough Report

Post by Ernie Cooksey »

God is an Englishman wrote:
damned if they do, damned if they don't
Agree.
Because they are champagne.

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Re: Hillsborough Report

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God is an Englishman


best prime minister of my lifetime.
even though she led a party that governed and oversaw govt depts which conspired to deny the truth about the way fellow english people were left to die????

political and social terrorist!!!!!!!!
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Re: Hillsborough Report

Post by God is an Englishman »

Blueblood wrote:
God is an Englishman wrote:
damned if they do, damned if they don't
Agree.
Because they are champagne.

agreed, all journalists are!

Then again, I'm sure you hate the Sun for other reasons than that. Everyone in your industry does :wink:
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Re: Hillsborough Report

Post by God is an Englishman »

MegaBonus wrote:
God is an Englishman


best prime minister of my lifetime.
even though she led a party that governed and oversaw govt depts which conspired to deny the truth about the way fellow english people were left to die????

political and social terrorist!!!!!!!!
even the inquiry found no government wrong doing.
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Re: Hillsborough Report

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surely you dont need to be lectured on the principles of 'responsible govt'??

By not commissioning an inquiry during her term, she endorsed the cover up.....like I said...she has blood on her hands!!!!!
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Re: Hillsborough Report

Post by God is an Englishman »

MegaBonus wrote:surely you dont need to be lectured on the principles of 'responsible govt'??

By not commissioning an inquiry during her term, she endorsed the cover up.....like I said...she has blood on her hands!!!!!
The inquiry said there was no government wrong doing, or are you going to choose to ignore the parts of it that don't suit your argument.

At the time there was no reason to disbelieve the version of events given. I haven't read it but so far there hasn't been much blame laid anywhere that wasn't already known.
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Re: Hillsborough Report

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damned if they do, damned if they don't
If they had any credibility their quote down the bottom "The Sun is profoundly sorry" should have been the main front page statement not "The real truth"
Shows their arrogance.

And after making money from sales of the original false lies they could have shown how sorry they are by printing free copies the other day to reverse those profits made back then instead of making profits again with lame muscat apologies in a smaller font down the bottom.
LIVERPOOL FC *****

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Re: Hillsborough Report

Post by MegaBonus »

God is an Englishman Post subject: Re: Hillsborough ReportPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:24 am


The inquiry said there was no government wrong doing, or are you going to choose to ignore the parts of it that don't suit your argument.


not ignoring anything.....

Fact: an inetrim report by Lord Justice taylor in August 1989 concludes "failure of police control" and that Duckenfield had lied.

Fact: thatcher resigns in Nov 1990...thats 15 months after the interim report came out, followed by 7 more years of tory rule
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Re: Hillsborough Report

Post by barcabarcabarca »

why they no want Heysel justice
disgusting club

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Re: Hillsborough Report

Post by Nice One Cyril »

MegaBonus wrote:
God is an Englishman Post subject: Re: Hillsborough ReportPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:24 am


The inquiry said there was no government wrong doing, or are you going to choose to ignore the parts of it that don't suit your argument.


not ignoring anything.....

Fact: an inetrim report by Lord Justice taylor in August 1989 concludes "failure of police control" and that Duckenfield had lied.

Fact: thatcher resigns in Nov 1990...thats 15 months after the interim report came out, followed by 7 more years of tory rule
And those two indisputable facts are linked how?
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Re: Hillsborough Report

Post by God is an Englishman »

MegaBonus wrote:
God is an Englishman Post subject: Re: Hillsborough ReportPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:24 am


The inquiry said there was no government wrong doing, or are you going to choose to ignore the parts of it that don't suit your argument.


not ignoring anything.....

Fact: an inetrim report by Lord Justice taylor in August 1989 concludes "failure of police control" and that Duckenfield had lied.

Fact: thatcher resigns in Nov 1990...thats 15 months after the interim report came out, followed by 7 more years of tory rule
the taylor report has nothing to do with thatcher "resigning".

So the new report states that there was no government wrong doing - you seem to be ignoring that fact.
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Re: Hillsborough Report

Post by Nice One Cyril »

Just found this which I'd never seen before.
A month after the Hillsborough Disaster, which cost the lives of 96 Liverpool fans, the chairman of Sheffield Wednesday approached the Football Association over a claim for compensation to help cover the club’s losses resulting from the tragedy — including reduced income from ticket sales because they had had to close the Leppings Lane end of the ground.

The revelation that Wednesday chairman Bert McGee wrote asking the FA for ‘help and advice’ over the claim will add to mounting criticism of the club and English football’s governing body for their roles in the disaster 23 years ago.

Wednesday were awarded the chance to stage the FA Cup semi-final between Liverpool and Nottingham Forest on April 15, 1989 despite Hillsborough not having a valid safety certificate required under the Safety of Sports Grounds Act 1975.

McGee’s letter, dated May 15, 1989, was sent to Graham Kelly, the then chief executive of the FA, and has been made public for the first time among the huge archive of documents published by the Hillsborough Independent Panel, whose report, published 11 days ago, revealed the extent of the police cover-up over the causes of the disaster.

Liverpool, who have consistently supported the campaign for the bereaved families to be told the truth about the disaster, face a massive test when they face Manchester United at Anfield. Fans of the arch-rivals have for years traded offensive chants about Hillsborough and the Munich air crash, and both clubs have appealed for restraint.

In his letter to the FA, McGee claimed that Wednesday faced extra costs because they had been forced to repair damage to a wall, barriers and seats because of the disaster, and had incurred financial losses through the temporary closure of the Leppings Lane enclosure, where the fatal crush happened.
Defies belief. :shock:
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Re: Hillsborough Report

Post by Victoria's Secret »

I have always felt for the Forest players, fans etc. They witnessed a disaster and are forgotten.

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Re: Hillsborough Report

Post by God is an Englishman »

NickyTanner wrote:I have always felt for the Forest players, fans etc. They witnessed a disaster and are forgotten.
A very good mate of mine was there, in the forest end. He left thinking it was no big deal and even couldn't understand why the game had been called off.

It wasn't until he got to his car and some old lady came out of her house told him people had died and offered her his phone to call home and say he was safe that they realised what they had seen.
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