That old chestnut..performance or results - Craig Moore

[DMT]

http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/so ... 7116932971

Craig Moore: performance against Japan more important than result heading into January’s Asian Cup
Craig Moore The Sunday Mail (Qld) November 08, 2014 9:00PM

LIKE every other Socceroos fan, I want Australia to beat Japan in Osaka on Tuesday week.

We haven’t had too many wins in recent times and victory over the champions of Asia would give us a massive confidence boost going into January’s Asian Cup being held on home soil.

But if we lose in Osaka, it’s not going to be the end of the world, far from it in fact.

Of course that’s easy for me to say in my role as an adviser to the national team, but being in my position has allowed me to see the long-term investment of the current process.

It’s not just subtle changes that the Socceroos have gone through since Ange Postecoglou took charge a year ago — there have been drastic changes.

But it had to happen this way.

What Postecoglou has done in attempting to expand our talent pool by giving a host of players opportunities has been essential because with the Asian Cup just around the corner, we needed to find out who was ready to take the next step.

This tournament could end up the biggest thing in the careers of a host of players.

We can’t waste this chance.

It would be foolish for me to say we’re going to win the Asian Cup, such is the strength of the opposition, but Australia lifts on home soil.

We’re good enough to get deep into the tournament, and from there anything can happen.

The struggles of the past year will become a distant memory if the Socceroos have a great Asian Cup.

So don’t be too concerned if we come up short on the scoreboard against Japan in our upcoming match.

Do the boys want to go over there, play well and win a game of football? You’re dead right they do.

And yes, we don’t always want to be applauded for playing well but getting nothing out of games, as was the case in a couple of our matches at this year’s World Cup.

But that’s part of the current regeneration process. It was always going to be hard work.

The harder you work, the more luck you will eventually have.

Western Sydney Wanderers just proved that by winning Asia’s biggest club tournament.

What happens in Japan next week isn’t going to change what we can potentially achieve in the Asian Cup and beyond.

This is an exciting time for Australian football.

[GaylyColouredStumps]

So for the Asian cup proper, are we playing for results? Or are we still developing?

By the time this crop of Socceroos are "developed", it'll be time to hang up the boots and start developing the next crop.

[Black_Panther]

So for the Asian cup proper, are we playing for results? Or are we still developing?

By the time this crop of Socceroos are "developed", it'll be time to hang up the boots and start developing the next crop.

that will obviously depend on possession stats.

[gone]

Isn't this what you guys were saying when AU were losing at the start of Gombau's reign?
Looking a bit silly now though.

[Black_Panther]

Isn't this what you guys were saying when AU were losing at the start of Gombau's reign?
Looking a bit silly now though.

Why because Adelaide Utd is now 4th on the ladder?

[Stuckey]

Isn't this what you guys were saying when AU were losing at the start of Gombau's reign?
Looking a bit silly now though.

I might hold off a bit on acting all confident. Who's to say it could all just fall apart tomorrow and JG leaves with nothing?
At this stage I'd still consider JG AU's 4th best coach. But that can all change if AU lift the FFA Cup in just over a month.

[GaylyColouredStumps]

Isn't this what you guys were saying when AU were losing at the start of Gombau's reign?
Looking a bit silly now though.

So which is it? Australia playing to win the Asian cup, or are we using the tournament to develop players?

[GaylyColouredStumps]

So for the Asian cup proper, are we playing for results? Or are we still developing?

By the time this crop of Socceroos are "developed", it'll be time to hang up the boots and start developing the next crop.

that will obviously depend on possession stats.

Looks like you are right, guess the decision will be made after the tournament.

[Stuckey]

Isn't this what you guys were saying when AU were losing at the start of Gombau's reign?
Looking a bit silly now though.

So which is it? Australia playing to win the Asian cup, or are we using the tournament to develop players?

What's your thoughts on what they should do differently?
It was fairly clear a number of the 'golden generation' were planning on retiring after the WC so the squad wouldn't be that much different to what Ange is going with.

[GaylyColouredStumps]

Isn't this what you guys were saying when AU were losing at the start of Gombau's reign?
Looking a bit silly now though.

So which is it? Australia playing to win the Asian cup, or are we using the tournament to develop players?

What's your thoughts on what they should do differently?
It was fairly clear a number of the 'golden generation' were planning on retiring after the WC so the squad wouldn't be that much different to what Ange is going with.

Its a simple question.

Are the Socceroos playing to win the Asian cup, or are we just using the tournament to develop players?

[astonvilla91]

.

[Stuckey]

So which is it? Australia playing to win the Asian cup, or are we using the tournament to develop players?

What's your thoughts on what they should do differently?
It was fairly clear a number of the 'golden generation' were planning on retiring after the WC so the squad wouldn't be that much different to what Ange is going with.

Its a simple question.

Are the Socceroos playing to win the Asian cup, or are we just using the tournament to develop players?

IMO they are trying to do both but I feel they will achieve neither.
Now my question if you please.

[GaylyColouredStumps]

I don't know what I would do differently

I was just interested in how we are approaching the tournament.

[BPBC]

Maybe give Ange a buzz when you get a chance

[gone]

We'll be trying to win the Asian Cup, regardless of how the results pan out.
However, if we lose badly I'm sure they'll try to spin it as still transitioning, which would just be BS.

[Stuckey]

I don't know what I would do differently

I was just interested in how we are approaching the tournament.

I don't speak for the Socceroos so maybe what I said isn't accurate but that's how I see them going into it.
They should still make the semi finals IMO.

[BPBC]

We'll be trying to win the Asian Cup, regardless of how the results pan out.
However, if we lose badly I'm sure they'll try to spin it as still transitioning, which would just be BS.

Win or lose, we are still transitioning. that's no BS, and im sure no one will be happy if we get belted.

[Stuckey]

We'll be trying to win the Asian Cup, regardless of how the results pan out.
However, if we lose badly I'm sure they'll try to spin it as still transitioning, which would just be BS.

Win or lose, we are still transitioning. that's no BS, and im sure no one will be happy if we get belted.

Ain't it the truth.

[DMT]

That idiot bosnich trying to be a hard hitting journalist vs Ange is getting ridiculous !

[Old Master]

That idiot bosnich trying to be a hard hitting journalist vs Ange is getting ridiculous !

Just jealousy, nothing more nothing less!

[Black_Panther]

That idiot bosnich trying to be a hard hitting journalist vs Ange is getting ridiculous !

I haven't seen the footage, but Ange does have some questions to answer. If the Asian Cup isn't a success (ie winning it) then he has taken us backwards at a rate of knots.

[Stuckey]

That idiot bosnich trying to be a hard hitting journalist vs Ange is getting ridiculous !

I haven't seen the footage, but Ange does have some questions to answer. If the Asian Cup isn't a success (ie winning it) then he has taken us backwards at a rate of knots.

How so? We struggled to qualify for the WC so its not like we were the powerhouse we once were in Asia when Ange took over.
I think you are over dramatising the situation a tad.

[Black_Panther]

That idiot bosnich trying to be a hard hitting journalist vs Ange is getting ridiculous !

I haven't seen the footage, but Ange does have some questions to answer. If the Asian Cup isn't a success (ie winning it) then he has taken us backwards at a rate of knots.

How so? We struggled to qualify for the WC so its not like we were the powerhouse we once were in Asia when Ange took over.
I think you are over dramatising the situation a tad.

You don't think that we are worse now than when he took over?

I do get the short term pain for long term gain, but in international terms that is probably only 4-5 games at best.

[Geo217]

I haven't seen the footage, but Ange does have some questions to answer. If the Asian Cup isn't a success (ie winning it) then he has taken us backwards at a rate of knots.[/quote]
How so? We struggled to qualify for the WC so its not like we were the powerhouse we once were in Asia when Ange took over.
I think you are over dramatising the situation a tad.[/quote]

You don't think that we are worse now than when he took over?

I do get the short term pain for long term gain, but in international terms that is probably only 4-5 games at best.[/quote]
He took over a team that got belted 6-0 in consecutive games, we finished miles behind japan in qualifying and only favourable results in the group saved us (other teams drawing against eachother), I mean we struggled to get past Iraqs youth team in the last qualifier.

The World Cup bought Ange time, the chile and Netherlands performances were encouraging, let's face it most of us were seeing potential 6-0 results going into the World Cup as well.

Are we worse now? I don't think so, but we aren't good, all but 2 of the games Ange has coached have also been away from home.

I'm confident we will get to the semis at least on home soil, Asia is a crap confederation, a combination of home field advantage and enough balls on cahills forehead should get us to the last 4 alone.

[Stuckey]

I haven't seen the footage, but Ange does have some questions to answer. If the Asian Cup isn't a success (ie winning it) then he has taken us backwards at a rate of knots.

How so? We struggled to qualify for the WC so its not like we were the powerhouse we once were in Asia when Ange took over.
I think you are over dramatising the situation a tad.

You don't think that we are worse now than when he took over?

I do get the short term pain for long term gain, but in international terms that is probably only 4-5 games at best.

Are you saying this transition period should last 4-5 games?

[BPBC]

I haven't seen the footage, but Ange does have some questions to answer. If the Asian Cup isn't a success (ie winning it) then he has taken us backwards at a rate of knots.

How so? We struggled to qualify for the WC so its not like we were the powerhouse we once were in Asia when Ange took over.
I think you are over dramatising the situation a tad.

You don't think that we are worse now than when he took over?

I do get the short term pain for long term gain, but in international terms that is probably only 4-5 games at best.

4-5 games, and at best too! to rebuild an ageing international squad with a very week depth issue, which magician do you have in mind that could have done this?

I'm honestly interested to know from anyone who is focusing on the results rather than what Ange has clearly stated he is trying to achieve, how do they think this past 12 months could have been handled better? don't forget to bare in mind the results and performances leading up to his appointment and to consider which direction we were heading in at the time.

We're all experts and no doubt can do better, but I am more than happy to leave it in Ange's hands and accept that it is something that may take 2 years or more to finally start seeing some clear progress, where we are not reliant on 2 or 3 stars but have a line up of players to choose from who can all slot in at any time and do as good a job. I see it as an extended version of what Gombau is doing, except where he has his squad with him every day, Ange does not

[Stuckey]

I'm honestly interested to know from anyone who is focusing on the results rather than what Ange has clearly stated he is trying to achieve, how do they think this past 12 months could have been handled better? don't forget to bare in mind the results and performances leading up to his appointment and to consider which direction we were heading in at the time.

I've been asking the exact same question but have yet to hear a response. So many can see what's wrong. But I'm yet to hear any alternatives to how exactly to fix it.

I think its very harsh to point the finger at Ange and say he needs to get his cabernet sorted when he's cleaning up 3 and half years of incompetence from Holger and the FFA.

People seem to have forgotten that we took the second oldest squad behind Italy to the South African WC. So it was clear a clean out was in order following that but instead we just stuck with the old and ignored the new. Now Ange is expected to fix all that inaction in 4-5 games.

[Black_Panther]

The results are poor, surely that can't be disputed.

There is no indication that we are getting better. The big push behind Ange was that he would be able to implement a more effective attacking team (we still don't look like scoring without putting high balls into the box for Cahill to get onto the end of).

The last 2 games of the Osieck era were against 2 top 10 (Brazil & France) teams where he did try and experiment and change things around. It wasn't like they were games against Ecuador or Oman.

If we were a more football focused country he would be under a hell of a lot more pressure than what he is. As coach he is the one who can make and implement the necessary changes. I really do hope that he is building a foundation to a more successful future but the signs aren't there.

[Stuckey]

The results are poor, surely that can't be disputed.

There is no indication that we are getting better. The big push behind Ange was that he would be able to implement a more effective attacking team (we still don't look like scoring without putting high balls into the box for Cahill to get onto the end of).

The last 2 games of the Osieck era were against 2 top 10 (Brazil & France) teams where he did try and experiment and change things around. It wasn't like they were games against Ecuador or Oman.

If we were a more football focused country he would be under a hell of a lot more pressure than what he is. As coach he is the one who can make and implement the necessary changes. I really do hope that he is building a foundation to a more successful future but the signs aren't there.

Why are you looking at such term periods? Who cares about getting pumped by Brazil and France in nothing games when the squad struggled thru a WC qualification we should have cruised thru.
As I said that period under Holger saw very little in the way of blooding youth. If you exclude the EAFF championship and one friendly against South Korea there was next to no development players given a run.
Funny you should mention Oman, In the 2014 WC qualifying we only drew with them home and away and if it was a two leg situation we would have lost on away goals.
Clearly you're very passionate about this but as I have pointed out you haven't mentioned at all how you would go about things differently. It very easy to look at bad results and say they're bad. But watch actually needs to change?
As I've said I'm not happy with the results either but no one can patch up 3 and a half years of neglect in 10 sporadically played games.

[BPBC]

There is no indication that we are getting better.

The fist half the other night against Japan was better than any half we have played against them that I can remember. The game against the Dutch bar a 20 minute period was probably the best game I can recall us playing in 8 years. The 2nd half against Chile can be added there too. Im not saying we are good im just saying in patches we seem to be getting much better, whereas you say there is no indication of this, and this is with a squad of players who are nowhere near the level of quality we had 10 or so years ago. If he can get us playing to a high level for 60 or 80% of the game, with players of that quality, then I trust that in time he will be able to change that to 100%

I must remember things differently to you pre Ange. the way we played was rubbish, we jagged results on the back of the 1 or 2 pieces of play, players were even throwing their arms in the air in frustration at how poor we were. Thank fk Schwarzer was playing so well. There was no sign whatsoever that we had a plan B once our ageing stars moved on, we were just plodding along extracting the last out of our best and hoping a star would be born to step in

You still haven't explained how we can be doing any better?