Real Germans?

[BAGGIO 15]

Real Germans? Just like the French WC winning side
Germany are dominating the World Cup with one of the most multicultural national teams in the game. But Serafino Ingardia feels Italy shouldn’t follow their example




Germany have by far been the best side in the World Cup and their clear dominance must be something other national teams look up to. The Germans now take on Spain in the semi-finals with a serious chance of lifting the trophy.

Still there is something about this team which leaves me slightly perplexed – I’m talking about its genuine nature. Checking out the squad, it is undeniable that nearly half of the players in the team have as many German links as a plate of spaghetti.

More precisely, I am talking about the following 10 (yes 10!) players: Dennis Aogo (Nigeria), Serdar Tasci and Mesut Ozil (Turkey), Sami Khedira (Tunisia), Cacau (Brazil), Jerome Boateng (Ghana), Mario Gomez (Spain), Marko Marin (Bosnia), Lukas Podolski and Miroslav Klose (Poland).

On one hand, Germany are a great multicultural example of what the EU stands for. On the other though, I feel many Italians wouldn't be happy to have such a squad representing their country at international level. The Germans are not the only ones though, Paraguay for instance had several Argentines at their disposal.

It is all about ethics really. While six of the above mentioned players have every right to play for Germany since they were born in the country, I have doubts regarding those who were born elsewhere and only joined their national team in the hunt for glory – a bit like Mauro Camoranesi did with Italy.

Cacau and Marin both revealed they joined the German side simply because their respective national teams didn't call them up. Same goes for Podolski and Klose, who are key members of this team. You may only wonder how superbly they could have represented Poland in this tournament.

Podolski was unlucky enough to score against his homeland in the past, while his whole family were cheering against him. The FC Koln player was heartbroken and I wish he regretted every single moment spent wearing the German shirt.

Klose went as far as stating that it would be best for him to be defined as European rather than German or Polish. A bit awkward. Doesn't sound very patriotic, does it? I wonder whether in Germany they are bothered about their players not singing the national anthem as we are in the peninsula?

In the last decade, the Germans have clearly looked up to the examples of successful football schools such as the French and the Dutch ones and are making the most of it now. Even their style of football has changed accordingly, looking less and less ‘German’ by the tournament.

Italy may do the same. The first player of this revolution will be Mario Balotelli, who has African origins but was born and grew up in our country. He had every right to chose between the Nazionale or Ghana, the country of his parents, and the boy was pretty determined to pick the Azzurri.

But should Cesare Prandelli and his staff go out looking for the new Oriundi sensations by perhaps scanning the streets of Buenos Aires? I don’t think that’s a great idea and feel it would be a shame if the new manager called up players such as Thiago Motta or Rodrigo Taddei too.

We do not need them, but that is not the point really. The Federation should take a firm stand regarding this matter and decide whether it is time to change and become like the Germans or stick to our origins. There are different types of Oriundi and those who have nothing Italian in their blood, as well as not being born in the country, should not be allowed to play for Italy.

That is because the Azzurri shirt should continue to be as glorious as ever, even if the Germans are lighting up the international scene right now. But they haven’t won it yet and we have no need to envy them. Not one bit.

[Kitchimo]

That's a misinformed article. No Germans were 'scouring the streets of Buenos Aires' looking for new talent. I don't see what the problem is with Balotelli, I love the undlying racism. He was born, bred, and raised in Italy. The article is calling for an almost quasi 'Master Italian race' to represent Italy. Frankly, I think if someone has earned the right to be known as a citizen of that country, they should have the opportunity and honour (if they wish) to represent it.

[MegaBonus]

On the other though, I feel many Italians wouldn't be happy to have such a squad representing their country at international level.

does that mean Italy would be happy to hand back the 1934 World Cup won with 4 Argentinians????

[limozeen]

I don't see the issue. Look at the socceroos over the years. Nearly everyone who plays football here has heritage from somewhere else.

[Stitch This]

I wasn't laughing at Italy until I read this.

[ozzie owl]

I think you will see even conservative nations such as England revisiting its rules given the German success.

[The Kop]

Germany is about the most diverse in terms of range of nationalities in Europe.
The idea of a blue eyed ranga eating a frankfurt is outdated.
This German squad pretty accurately reflects their 82m population.

People keep bring Ozil up. But he is 3rd generation Turk. Meaning he was born and bred in Germany and his parents were born and bred in Germany! How long down the line before you separate being 'Turk' from being 'German'.

If there was a 3rd generation Greek-Australian (ie Bouzanis) everyone would be up in arms if he didnt pick Australia over Greece.

Little bit kettle black sydnrome, there's every chance in Brazil 2014 Italy's forward partnership might be Okaka-Balotelli!!

[Peter_Griffin]

They probably think having a multiracial team will help people forget about Hitler

[ozzie owl]

They probably think having a multiracial team will help people forget about Hitler

You are a total

[Peter_Griffin]

They probably think having a multiracial team will help people forget about Hitler

You are a total

You are a total

[MegaBonus]

Peter_Griffin
Post subject: Re: Real Germans?

They probably think having a multiracial team will help people forget about Hitler

not as silly as it sounds.......i saw a program commenting on the reluctance of the german people to fly their flag during the tournament thus far as it exhibits a sense of patriotism/nationalism. a migant worker was happy to fly it but indigenous germans were not.....

[notisre]

as if Klose & Podolski wouldnt be selected by the Poland coach

[Hawkesy]

I think you will see even conservative nations such as England revisiting its rules given the German success.

I certainly hope not.

Think how many non-australians have represented your country.

As for a 3rd generation german (didn't realise that was the case) still being a turk that would mean that there is only 2 "australians" I can actually think of that actually made it on the world stage. Actually, gillespie - make that 3.

[Steve#4]

Many indigenous australians have made it on the world stage, you only choose to acknowledge two sports to suit your Fishing expedition

[Bresciano]

Love the way they play - the best thing about the WC. And my parents are English.

[Scholes]

Lucky you!!!!!

[BAGGIO 15]

[quote="The Kop"]Germany is about the most diverse in terms of range of nationalities in Europe.
The idea of a blue eyed ranga eating a frankfurt is outdated.
This German squad pretty accurately reflects their 82m population.

People keep bring Ozil up. But he is 3rd generation Turk. Meaning he was born and bred in Germany and his parents were born and bred in Germany! How long down the line before you separate being 'Turk' from being 'German'.

If there was a 3rd generation Greek-Australian (ie Bouzanis) everyone would be up in arms if he didnt pick Australia over Greece.

Little bit kettle black sydnrome, there's every chance in Brazil 2014 Italy's forward partnership might be Okaka-Balotelli!![/quote]


Thats a good point.

[Hawkesy]

Many indigenous australians have made it on the world stage, you only choose to acknowledge two sports to suit your Fishing expedition

I allowed 3, the only 3 I have heard of.

[Bomber]

Many indigenous australians have made it on the world stage, you only choose to acknowledge two sports to suit your Fishing expedition

I allowed 3, the only 3 I have heard of.

....and they are (out of interest).......?

[Hawkesy]

Many indigenous australians have made it on the world stage, you only choose to acknowledge two sports to suit your Fishing expedition

I allowed 3, the only 3 I have heard of.

....and they are (out of interest).......?

goolagong
freeman
gillespie

[Russia2O18]

many of these so called foreigners were born, bred and learned their football in Germany
there are others that were ethnic Germans in Poland who migrated back to Germany as children and once again learned their football in Germany

i dont understand why there is so much inquisition into the ethnic make up of German sides and none into that of most other nations competing at the World Cup

it smacks of jealously

[redsfan]

goolagong
freeman
gillespie

what do you consider making it on the world stage?
does winnnig world boxing titles count...Rose, Mundine.

does representing your country and playing in the NBA at basketball in Jawal and Mills count?

Wendell Sailor played Union and League for australia does he count?

oh an i never knew Chad Reed was indigenous or part, he is and has been one of the worlds premier motox riders for years now.

http://www.creativespirits.info/aborigi ... letes.html

[Hawkesy]

goolagong
freeman
gillespie

what do you consider making it on the world stage?
does winnnig world boxing titles count...Rose, Mundine.

does representing your country and playing in the NBA at basketball in Jawal and Mills count?

Wendell Sailor played Union and League for australia does he count?

oh an i never knew Chad Reed was indigenous or part, he is and has been one of the worlds premier motox riders for years now.

http://www.creativespirits.info/aborigi ... letes.html

forgot about mundine, didn't realise that about sailor (thought he was a pacific islander).

However, the point is. If people refer to the german side as being made up of foreigners then the VAST majority of the people representing your country aren't australian either.

[swannsong]

Famous Aboriginal athletes
Benn Harradine, Australia's first Indigenous field event athlete and the first Indigenous field athlete to represent Australia at an Olympic Game (Beijing 2008) and World Championships in Berlin. He holds the Australian and Oceania records for discus throwing.
Cathy Freeman, track and field athlete.
Jacob Groth, a sprinter, was a World Junior representative in 2004.
Jeff 'Mitta' Dynevor, first Aboriginal athlete to win a Commonwealth Games gold medal in 1962 for boxing where he fought with his friends and community peers Eddie Barney and Adrian Blair. [3]
Joshua Ross started as a track and field athlete in 2003 with his win in the Stawell Gift [16]. Joshua was ranked number 6 on the all-time list after less than a year in competitive athletics. He ended his career in November 2009 as the third fastest Australian over 100m of all time (10.08 seconds). Joshua represented Australia in the 2004 Athens Olympic Games, during the world championships in 2005 and 2009 and the Commonwealth Games in 2006.
Ken Hampton is a sprinter and member of the Alawa people from the Roper River area in the Northern Territory. Though taken when he was three years old he became schoolboy athletics champion and won the 1961 Bay Sheffield 130-yard race in 12.4 seconds. After his elite running days Ken became a community leader and Anglican deacon, and the first Aboriginal Justice of Peace in South Australia. In 2009 Ken was inducted to the Bay Sheffield Hall of Fame [20].
Kyle Vander-Kuyp, track and field athlete.
Nova Peris-Kneebone, track and field athlete.
Otis Gowa, athlete.
Patrick Johnson, sprinter. He won the men's 100m open at the 2006 Telstra A-Series.
Tom Dancey was the second Aboriginal man to win the Stawell Easter Gift in 1910. Just four Aboriginal men won this 120 metres foot race: B Kinnear (1883), T Dancey (1910), L Cooper (1928) and J Ross (2003). Tom Dancey died in 1957.

Famous Aboriginal basketballers
Nathan Jawai was part of the 2009 Australian men's basketball squad. He was the first Indigenous Australian to be selected into the 2008 NBA by Indiana.
Patrick Mills, participated in the Beijing Olympics in 2008 and was selected into the 2009 NBA draft by the Portland Trailblazers.
Rohanee Cox stands at 182 cm tall and plays in the Women's National Basketball League (WNBL). She won the Eddie Gilbert Medal in 2008.


Famous Aboriginal boxers
George Bracken
Wally Carr had 101 professional fights between 1971 and 1986 from Super-Bantamweight to Heavyweight.
Anthony Little, a boxer who represented Australia at the 2004 Olympics.
Anthony Mundine
Clayton Cook competes in Thai kick boxing (muaythai).
Daniel Geale is a middleweight boxer who's first loss came after 22 fights by Anthony Mundine in 2009.
Dave Sands
Elley Bennett
George Bracken
Hector Thompson
Lionel Rose became the first Aboriginal world bantamweight champion in 1968. His life is celebrated in the movie Lionel.
Robby Peden
Ron (Ranold) Richards (1910-1967) is the holder of six boxing titles (middleweight and heavyweight). He retired from boxing in 1945 having amassed a ring career in excess of 140 fights and more than 60 knockout victories [25]. He was ranked number three in both middleweight and light-heavyweight in 1938. Richards was inducted into the Queensland Indigenous Sporting Hall of Fame in 2010 and into the Australian National Boxing Hall of Fame in 2003. A memorial in his honour was unveiled in May 2010 at the Purga Aboriginal Mission site near Ipswitch, Queensland.
Sam Ah-See is still a young boxer from Orange, NSW, born in 1991.
Tony Mundine

Famous Aboriginal cricketers
Dan Christian, a Wiradjuri man, started playing junior cricket in Sydney to graduate from Commonwealth Bank Cricket Academy in 2003. He also played in the UK a few times [12]. He was the captain of the 2009 British tour of the Australian Indigenous cricket team.
Eddie Gilbert was the only bowler to knock the bat out of Sir Donald Bradman's hands and to have bowled him for a duck. He played 23 matches for Queensland in the 1930s during which he took 87 wickets at an average of 29. A statue in his honour has been erected at Brisbane's Allan Border Field [6].
Faith Thomas (nee Choulthard) played her only test for Australia in 1958. Faith is the the first (and as of 2008 still the only) Aboriginal woman cricketer with national honours [8].
Jason Gillespie has a 71-Test career and is Australia's first Indigenous cricketer to play at the hightest level [15]. Jason finished with 259 wickets and produced a double century in his final Test match.
Jeff Cook is a Kamilaroi man and leader of the victorious 2006 NSW Imparja Cup team. He gained his first cricket experience in the 1990s while playing in Britain for more than a decade. He made more than 4,000 runs, including five centuries, with a top score of 137, collecting 84 wickets.
Johnny Mullagh was a member of the first Australian international touring sporting team, the 'Native XI', in 1868. He is commemorated at the Johynny Mullagh Interpretative Centre in Harrow, Victoria, along with a statue at the oval. Each year an Indigenous team takes on a non-Indigenous team in the Johnny Mullagh Cup [13].
Vince Copley played as a young man at state level. He was on the organising committee of the Lords Taverner's Imparja Cub since its inception. A medal of that competition was named after him. In the late 1950s he coached the Curramulka Football Club to consecutive premierships. He was politically active from the late 1960s and a member of the Aborigines' Progress Association [19].

Famous Aboriginal footballers/Rugby League players
Alan Karpany was the first footballer to win the Mail Medal in the Murray Downs Football League in 1935. The Mail Medal was started by the Adelaide Sunday Mail for the best and fairest player [5].
Ambrose McDonald started playing football professionally at 25 and became one of the hardest players for Tasmanian Premier League side Sandy Bay [7].
Arthur Beetson, Rugby League player and 'greatest attacking forward of his generation', became the first Aboriginal player to captain Australia in any major sport when he took the helm of the Kangaroos against France in 1973. He also led Australia in the 2nd Test of the 1974 Ashes series, and in six World Cup games (1975/1977).
Bruce 'Larpa' Stewart, Rugby League player in the 1960s.
Bruce Olive played for Newtown between 1963 and 1967.
Cliffy Lyons, Rugby League player for Manly in the 1980s.
Corey Ah Chee, debuted in 2000 in the South Australian Football League (SAFL) from which he retired in 2009 after 206 senior games. He continued in the North Eastern Football League (NEFL) in South Australia [14].
David Wirrpanda, footballer and Western Australia Young Australian of the Year 2008. Since making his debut as a 16-year-old for Perth's West Coast Eagles David has notched 227 appearances for the club before retiring in 2009 after the birth of his first child. David was named an All-Australian, represented Australia in International Rules matches against Ireland and was the inaugural AFL Community Leadership Award winer in 2003 [21]. His David Wirrpanda Foundation (http://www.dwf.org.au) helps underprivileged young people.
Eddie Betts, AFL player from Kalgoorlie-Boulder in Western Australia [4].
Eric Simms, Rugby League player for South Sydney in the 1960s and 1970s. "His skill with the boot brought his side so many field goals that the lawmakers downgraded their value from two points to one." [2]
Eric Robinson played Aboriginal Rugby League for the South Sydney Rabbitohs in the 1960s. In 2008, one son played first grade Rugby League (Ricky Walford over 100 games with St George) and three of his grandsons (Travis Robinson with the Sharks, Reece Robinson with Broncos and Nathan Merrit with Souths).
Gavin Wanganeen, was the first player to reach 300 AFL games during the 2000-2009 decade.
George Green, believed to be the first Indigenous League player in 1909, though his true heritage was never established. He played 16 games for Estern Suburbs and 92 for North Sydney in a career that stretched from 1908 to 1922 [24].
Jonathan Thurston, Rugby League player and inaugural winner of the Eddie Gilbert Medal in 2007. He's rated by many as the 'best league player in the world'.
Lance 'Buddy' Franklin, became the first Indigenous player to kick 100 goals in a season.
Larry Corowa, Rugby League player for Balmain in the 1970s.
Lin and grenache Johnson, Rugby League players in the 1940s playing in different teams.
Lionel Morgan became the first Aboriginal Test rugby league player to represent Australia in the 2nd and 3rd Tests against France in 1960. Later in that same year Morgan played for the Kangaroos in the Rugby League World Cup in England.
Maurice Rioli
Michael Long began his football career with St Marys Club in Darwin. In 1989 he started playing for Essendon. After 12 years with the club he had participated in 190 games. Long then started working as an ambassador and chaired the Long Walk Foundation. In 2007 he was inducted to the AFL Hall of Fame.
Neil Maynard played as full back in North Launceston, Tasmania. He holds the club's record at 323 senior games [10].
Neil 'Nicky' Winmar who was involved in Australia's most infamous sporting racism moment in the 1993 season. Nicky's match-winning performance against Collingwood brought on some racist taunts from hard-core Collingwood fans. At the end of the game, Nicky famously lifted his jumper and pointed to his black skin.
Peter Burgoyne started his AFL career with Port Adelaide Power in 1997 and played 240 senior games with them. He was the first player to get to the 200-AFL game milestone in the Power colours.
Roy Baira is a north Queensland Rugby League player who played for Brothers and Machay Cutters.
Shaun Cusack, from Alice Springs, retired from being an active AFL player in 2009 to continue as a coach.
Wendell Sailor debuted in Brisbane in 1993 and played for Brisbane, the Dragons and Wallabies and finally St George Illawarra. His first grade tally stands at 222 [17].

[Kitchimo]

goolagong
freeman
gillespie

what do you consider making it on the world stage?
does winnnig world boxing titles count...Rose, Mundine.

does representing your country and playing in the NBA at basketball in Jawal and Mills count?

Wendell Sailor played Union and League for australia does he count?

oh an i never knew Chad Reed was indigenous or part, he is and has been one of the worlds premier motox riders for years now.

http://www.creativespirits.info/aborigi ... letes.html

forgot about mundine, didn't realise that about sailor (thought he was a pacific islander).

However, the point is. If people refer to the german side as being made up of foreigners then the VAST majority of the people representing your country aren't australian either.

David James
Glen Johnson
Rio Ferdinand
Ledley King
Aaron Lennon
Shaun Wright-Phillips
Jermain DeFoe
Ashley Cole
Emile Heskey
etc

[redsfan]

forgot about mundine, didn't realise that about sailor (thought he was a pacific islander).

However, the point is. If people refer to the german side as being made up of foreigners then the VAST majority of the people representing your country aren't australian either.

personally i couldn't care less where people come from, it's what they feel in their heart that counts when choosing a country.
Players that choose a big country due to the chance of having more success on the world stage over what nationality they feel they are piss me off.
If the story about Podolski feeling heartbroken when he scored against Poland is true then he's a twat and should be playing for Poland not Germany.


But it's a bit rich for an Englishman to have a crack when half their cricket team are saffers.

[Hawkesy]

forgot about mundine, didn't realise that about sailor (thought he was a pacific islander).

However, the point is. If people refer to the german side as being made up of foreigners then the VAST majority of the people representing your country aren't australian either.

personally i couldn't care less where people come from, it's what they feel in their heart that counts when choosing a country.
Players that choose a big country due to the chance of having more success on the world stage over what nationality they feel they are piss me off.
If the story about Podolski feeling heartbroken when he scored against Poland is true then he's a twat and should be playing for Poland not Germany.


But it's a bit rich for an Englishman to have a crack when half their cricket team are saffers.

and there's the point exactly. You claim pietersen to be south african, you ozil to be turkish and not german. So, if that is the case, that a 3rd generation german isn't german then what consitutes a nationality.

Ozil has parents and grand parents born in germany, pietersen has a parent born in England. How many generations before Ozil's family becomes german? And there's the point, if he isn't german then none of your current "socceroos" side aren't australian.

[Kitchimo]

Ozil was born in Germany, Pietersen was not born in England.

[Mato]

haha where is colossus. he would claim ozil has never even lived in germany.

[Bomber]

haha where is colossus. he would claim ozil has never even lived in germany.

Port are getting hammered lately so he (Col) usually goes on his "fishing holidays".