Elite Womens Football Program in SA

[SAD GAL]

So I think the most of us keen sport (elite level) followers have read the SA Weekend Magazine and in particular the article about SA’s diminishing elite sports persons in international competitions. Pretty dire isn’t it. If high profile sports are struggling then where is Womens football headed too? A very quick exit out of SASI based programs I predict.

Over the last few years my rantings have focused on the lack of people moving through the SASI Womens football program. We all chose to bury our heads and say ist GREAT. Well it isn’t GREAT. Its BAD.

The way its headed, I don’t think we’ll have to talk about the FFSA’s lack of action and foresight or when the Senior coaching position is coming up….Why? Because there will be no SASI Womens football program in SA.

Its not a doomsday prediction…Just reality.. Its been a rotting mess for at least 5 years.

[M@rvin]

I agree with your comments.
Is the problem that we are not identifiying players? or are the players not there?
Also with STIC just finnished I have heard that SASI and State players were included in teams, this reduces postitions for new talent. Why include players that have already been identified as having talent?

[Nimmitz]

the majority of the Southern U16 STIC team are current state players, some people want to win at all costs, they are not interested in developing other players

[slazenger]

Is that the reason? To win at all costs? Or are they setting a bench mark and enabling a comparison to be made between the best players in the state and those yet to be identified? It's easier to stand out when you're not competing against the best.

[pvfc]

the majority of the Southern U16 STIC team are current state players, some people want to win at all costs, they are not interested in developing other players

That is most definitely not the case, they followed the direction spelled out to them by FFSA, who clearly stated they wanted the 'best' players to participate regardless of whether they had previously been identified. No reason other than that.
Maybe FFSA want some identified players to be out there for a reason - to benchmark against? - who knows?
Maybe it helps the other girls not previously ID'ed to see where they need to be, or even gives them the opportunity to show whether they can 'step up' against strong competition?

At the end of the day it was the FFSA's call.
I can see merit in both approaches, not allowing State players at STIC would allow more places for others, but on the other hand a 'slightly' above average player in an average comp would stand out whereas they may not against stronger competition. In the long run the only way to properly assess/ID new players is against other quality players.

On a separate note, some of SAD GAL's comments do have some relevance. Everyone including FFSA have recognised there is a problem which needs to be addressed with women's football in SA. The question is whether the measures they put in place to take things forward are correct or not. Like most people I have no first hand info on this yet, but will be watching and listening with keen interest.
Is it already too late or not? - I really don't know, but I hope not. I hope they get it right, because it has got to the point where if they don't get it right then I believe you will see a significant element of SA's most committed and ambitious youth players looking outside of SA for their path forward in the sport in the not too distant future.

[John Cena]

yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn,,,,,,,,,this topic pops up every season , nothing will change with the same people running the circus

[juniorsupporter]

The one-note wonder strikes again.

[John Cena]

The one-note wonder strikes again.

so tell me junior...are you happy with how the womans game is going? I have been involved with the womans game as far back as when bess was coaching underage and playing for west adelaide......in the last 5 years our game has gone backwards, badly. the game has lacked alot ever since anton has left the league....that is my view

[juniorsupporter]

John Cena- I meant no disrespect (I was honestly just being cheeky), and I agree that the state of elite women's football in SA is in decline at the moment, but I do think that the reasons for this are a bit more complicated than just FFSA's management (or mismanagement as you might argue). Many factors have been raised here on these forums that I think all have contributed to the current state of affairs. It's very easy to focus on just one target, or one person in the case of your past postings re:WC, but I think that there are many different forces at work here and I think a broader approach to understanding the problem would be more constructive than just blaming FFSA and Wendy all the time.

That being said, I have to agree that the inconsistency in the elite development programs over the past two years is deeply disturbing and this can be laid squarely at the door of FFSA since their incorporation of SAWSA. I also agree with PVFC that if players feel that FFSA is unwilling or unable to help local female talent get the to the next level, than those who can will look elsewhere.

[southern]

One thing is for sure, that since SAWSA became FFSA things went bad. AU is just the mirror of the situation. The ppl in charge have no idea of women's soccer and they don't even care. The answer is recruiting overseas/interstate players instead of taking responsibility for their own state. It shows they have no faith in the players here and I only sympathize with those palyers who don't want to get involved with this mess. Until local women's soccer coaches (female or male) and local women's soccer people will run things, there will be nothing to cheer about. I feel sorry for those who want to be optimistic at all costs, we must support the sport, players etc, but we can't pretend to be blind! FFSA only uses the girls as a money-making thing.

[The General]

One thing is for sure, that since SAWSA became FFSA things went bad. AU is just the mirror of the situation. The ppl in charge have no idea of women's soccer and they don't even care. The answer is recruiting overseas/interstate players instead of taking responsibility for their own state. It shows they have no faith in the players here and I only sympathize with those palyers who don't want to get involved with this mess. Until local women's soccer coaches (female or male) and local women's soccer people will run things, there will be nothing to cheer about. I feel sorry for those who want to be optimistic at all costs, we must support the sport, players etc, but we can't pretend to be blind! FFSA only uses the girls as a money-making thing.

What hurts me is that the money those girls pay, is paying wages of the people ruinning the game

[Brillo]

Ok just a side note here with regards to the STIC u16s team from the south.
Against what our club had nominated, the coach for this team had contacted a number of players to be a part of the team whether they had trialled or not. There were 2 trial sessions with the 3rd one being cancelled and the coach 'coming out to watch the girls at some games'.
Now I know we are all volunteers on the most part in this business but when a club nominates players to come out to trials and a coach circumvents a club by contacting them directly this goes against what a club and coach wishes for its players and what FFSA wants with a talent identification trial if we are just getting the same known players out again and again.
Play by the right code guys - trial and qualify.

[smiley6]

shouldn't there a complaint put in against this so called coach???? That's not fair against the girls that want to come out and get chosen by their coach to trial... what nonesense that is...

the north girls bet the south team in their first game 2:1, south coach wasn't very happy about that result....
but on the finals unfortunately the north girls got beaten.... south looked very strong i must admit..... but with so many
state players in their team.. was a bit unfair and shouldn't happen again..... something FFSA would have to consider for next year maybe :? :?

[pvfc]

Brillo, if there were issues between your club and the coach regarding methods and selections then I can't comment on that as I'm in no position to do so.
However, eligable sasi players had been told they were expected to trial for stic and to 'set an example' to others (and this was from the sasi coach, not the stic coach), and given the FFSA's instructions that they wanted the 'elite' of junior players taking part in the tournament (which may or may not include existing state players etc) the team that was selected just seemed to reflect what FFSA wanted to anyone not involved with the selection.
As I said earlier, there are 2 different views on whether these players should have been involved and both could be considered legitimate for different reasons.

Anyway, moving on - I still await with great interest what the plan for 2011 and beyond will be.
I hope that players who have both the ability and the drive to succeed will be properly supported and encouraged in the new plan/structure.

[BeNatural]

One thing is for sure, that since SAWSA became FFSA things went bad. AU is just the mirror of the situation. The ppl in charge have no idea of women's soccer and they don't even care. The answer is recruiting overseas/interstate players instead of taking responsibility for their own state. It shows they have no faith in the players here and I only sympathize with those palyers who don't want to get involved with this mess. Until local women's soccer coaches (female or male) and local women's soccer people will run things, there will be nothing to cheer about. I feel sorry for those who want to be optimistic at all costs, we must support the sport, players etc, but we can't pretend to be blind! FFSA only uses the girls as a money-making thing.

What hurts me is that the money those girls pay, is paying wages of the people ruinning the game

Your joking!!

The mens and jpl pay around $500,000 a year

The womens teams might pay a total of $80,000

The womens game gets a fair run, full staff support at the mens clubs expense.

It cost $15,000 to enter super league. Add player fees and junior fees and a club like blue eagles pays $35,000 a year to affiliate with FFSA!

Whereas say Pulteney pays may $400 a year amd gets the same service as blue eagles.

It's time the womens prems club pay the same as the state league of $3500 if they want to be tested equal

[themagnet]

Brian, don't forget the mens clubs make money from things like game day entry fees, better sponsorship opportunities, and better game day bar/Toilet Seats takings because of the bigger crowds. They make money by being affiliated with FFSA.
It's not exactly fair to compare a Div 5 womens team like Pultney to a well established club like ABE. And they dont get the same service at all, like at that level, ref's often aren't assigned to games, among other things.

[SAD GAL]

Basically from all the postings on here, we're no closer to the answer. From my reading of many posts about this or similar topics is that the game will always struggle. The competition is always being tinkered with in order to give the perception of change and improvement however, the cattle on the park presents a challenge for all aspects of the game ie school, club and sasi levels.

To be fair to sasi, they have always had to fill the gap and work hard to try and bring the players to an acceptable level before the coach can make any inroads and hopefully get them to national selection level.

its at the club level that the development is lacking and always will be. The clubs focus is inwards and they are content on providing a team for the competition. And this is ok as its their perogative.

So until the players come through a strong developmental program from a young age and progress through the grades incrementally, then the chasm is too big from junior to senior to elite.

As an example, a young 12-13-14 year old playing in a senior comp (reserves or prems) is absurd. Skill is minimal whilst trying to survive amongst big and physical women is the challenge. There is NO development of skills in this environment. IMPOSSIBLE.

Over to you.

[beaches]

Over the years there have been numerous 12,13. & 14 year olds play in the Premier League, and have aquitted themselves well from the word go. Yes some were the product of Carl Maynard development. Clubs would never have played them up if they were not up to Premier Standard.9The clubs I have been associated with anyway).
It was most interesting watching young Danielle Di Bartolo play for the State team against AU and Illawara on the long weekend, because Franca would have played against many of the young ones I refer to. If they are good enough play them, because it is obvious that the Matildas play 16/17 year olds.

[slazenger]

I have to agree with SAD GAL on this one. Having 12, 13, 14 year olds playing against full grown women is absurd. By playing at this level, the girls aren't fastracking their development as some would think, they're actually missing out on developing their skills. By playing against older women, the girls may be become stronger quicker but the skills such as first touch and ball control are ignored. Personally I think the development of players between the ages of 12-15 is crucial. These girls are not physically, technically or tactically good enough to be playing at premier league level. Sure, I admit the physical aspect and the tactical aspect may be fastracked by playing at a more competitive level, but the technical aspect will go backwards. Playing these girls at this level is like letting your child roam the streets at the age of 12-15, sure they'll survive, but what will they become? Developing players is much the same as growing up, the girls need nurturing - they need guidance and coaching from all levels, not just treated like they're immediately 20 years old. Basically, I believe that girls benefit more from playing within their age group.

[lollipop]

I feel confident saying this now that I am almost 5 years removed from the state. The biggest problem with football in SA is that in identifying talent, coaches miss the key component - HARD WORK! You can only go so far on talent alone! a player has to be willing to develop further and put in the time an effort it takes to reach the (next level) national team ranks. Di Alagich was talented but what made her such a great player was her relentless work ethic. Shouldnt this be the example?? last time I checked she was the only South Australian player with a successful (long term) national team career.

I can only dream of what my own career would have been like had my coach believed in me. Instead, like many others, I had to leave the state/country in order to develop any further.

Love Lollipop

[DJ Glove]

i would have to agree with you lolipop, the dedication to the women's program has been going down hill for a number of years.. this could have to do with coaching staff, funding, equipment and the general overview of the program.

i remember when i was playing, i had a goal, i had a coach that wasnt willing to help me fulfull my goal so i had to take it apon myself and move to where i had proper support, it wasnt easy but at the time it felt like something that i had to do.

[SAD GAL]

Just to refersh everyone's memory.

Said so!

So I think the most of us keen sport (elite level) followers have read the SA Weekend Magazine and in particular the article about SA’s diminishing elite sports persons in international competitions. Pretty dire isn’t it. If high profile sports are struggling then where is Womens football headed too? A very quick exit out of SASI based programs I predict.

Over the last few years my rantings have focused on the lack of people moving through the SASI Womens football program. We all chose to bury our heads and say ist GREAT. Well it isn’t GREAT. Its BAD.

The way its headed, I don’t think we’ll have to talk about the FFSA’s lack of action and foresight or when the Senior coaching position is coming up….Why? Because there will be no SASI Womens football program in SA.

Its not a doomsday prediction…Just reality.. Its been a rotting mess for at least 5 years.

[adelaidepie]

I know as some have posted that this same topic comes around and around and most say "what can we do nothing changes"!

Well to me people can make a change. I'm not talking about storming the office with signs saying sack em but firstly start getting involved with your club and the committee and asking them where is the league going and what goals achievements / criteria is being set by the FFSA.

I've been to delegates meeting and one of the areas I was surprised (and it has been a while sice I went) was teh lack of imput and attendance from most teams outside of Prems and maybe State league. How can you have input into what you want if you dont attend and or have a delegate attending? This way if clulbs have a strong feeling towards something they can air this opinion and maybe get support from other clubs.

Ask why feedback forums are not set for players / coaches / teams to deliver questions and answers if no answers ask why. If you don't ask you will never find out.

What KPI's are the staff or development people working under? THese ore the questions that you guys are raising but are they being asked at meetings?

Just a thought and you have to start somewhere?

Adelaidepie Julian

[Super_Trooper]

Not sure how far this is pushing from the topic but back beginning in 1998/1999 SASI developed a program and named the team 'SASI Storm' where they took 'unseen and developing players' that were seen to have potential and they were trained and moulded into elite athletes. They trained 2-3 times per week, were submitted to regular fitness testing at SASI and they played within the SAWSA League in the then named 'Division 1' with State League and Reserve/Prems above them.

All players were selected at about 12-13 of age with potential development and once they had reached a certain level they would continue to move towards the Junior SASI team now just basically know as SASI or what ever it is called now OR once they got to an older age say 16+ they were encouraged to move on to club teams as there was only so much your could develop within that squad... Essentially it was a SASI run program with a club team like feel to it...

This program continued for at least 4-5 years and eventually just fell away (for what reason I dont know).... Can't see why something like this can't come back! There have been some great players come from the program some which are still playing or coaching today at both club, state, national and international level...

We need to start somewhere - Why not go back to something that worked?!?

[adelaidepie]

Well said Super_trooper. This is the ideas that could be asked at the delegates meetings by clubs. I also think that just because your club is not prems or state league doesn't mean you haven't got ideas thoughts or comments that could be presented after all it maybe your team there sooner rather than later. Any idea is an idea worth looking at.

An example of this is the resrtucture of the league all clubs (if they hadn't) should have been making cooments on what they liked disliked and wanted for the league because teh bootom line is the leagues all need to grow together and in that I mean we all know and understand the strucutre that we are playing in (Again not saying there are or are not problems it is just a comment).

A think tank, brain buster open forum for clubs and delegates to bring to the table ways to re ignite this great competition.

Adelaidepie Julian

[Ginger]

I am really, really concerned that the new coach has to answer to Airton Andrioli.

This guy hasn't a clue about women's soccer and has serious communications problems (as those families who were involved in the U12 Development program will attest). He is very arrogant and simply will not listen to anyone else's perspective. Despite all his promises of 'girls development' and parents paying nearly $500 for their girls to be in the squad the girls were given only one coach to train nearly 30 girls for over half of the 3 months the squad trained. Airton knew what was going on and did nothing. The girls were just a source of income. The parents were so unhappy they wanted to write a letter of protest to FFSA, but were too scared to do so in case it impacted on their daughters.

I pity the poor person who gets this position. Oh, un less ofcourse it is one of his friends

[pc9999]

So much animosity towards the current regime.

I may take my daughter back to the boys teams.
In fact should the girls simply play 1 or 2 yrs down from their age groups in a boys team and be done with the women all together?
Once they can play high level they go to res/prem/state etc.

At least while not perfect it does mainly work.

[juniorsupporter]

What does your daughter want? :?

[pc9999]

What does your daughter want? :?

A pony
And to be a Vet.

Seriously, she likes her current team she is young and playing res level, she didn't expect it but had a crack and made it. (mixed opinions I know)
She is challenged and works hard to improve. The only reason (I think like most girls) she stopped playing in a boys team was because she was turning 12 and felt more comfortable around girls (ie she was getting teased by 1 or 2 boys, the rest were great but it's always the minority that spoil things).

[smiley6]

What does your daughter want? :?

A pony
And to be a Vet.

Seriously, she likes her current team she is young and playing res level, she didn't expect it but had a crack and made it. (mixed opinions I know)
She is challenged and works hard to improve. The only reason (I think like most girls) she stopped playing in a boys team was because she was turning 12 and felt more comfortable around girls (ie she was getting teased by 1 or 2 boys, the rest were great but it's always the minority that spoil things).

my daughter is 15 and plays in a boys team.. she loves every minute of it, the boys treat her like one of them and she
wouldn't have it any other way!! I know the time will come and she has to move to a womens team, she is filling in now
for them when needed, but just doesn't like the bitchyness that goes on there (sometimes) and feels much more comfortable with the boys.. for how much longer, i don't know