Jnr Ladders U/12-U/17

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Re: Jnr Ladders U/12-U/17

Post by Man City Over 35s »

johnydep wrote:
blue moon wrote:
only really happens at the big clubs who can afford to buy the best young players from around the world, get them early and it saves them having to buy high priced players at a later date.

I personally think there is nothing wrong in kids being exposed to results / competitive games. kids have plenty of training sessions to develop theirs skills in a non-competitive, friendly environment. these can then be tested under a slightly more intense situation where they learn to be more accountable for their play. why do kids get marked / graded and sit tests at school, its to put into practice what they are taught day in day out. you don’t home school do you?
Bad example. Kids don't get tested every week after 2 x 2 hour sessions, nor are they watched by strangers, yelled at, directed by numerous people, etc at each test.
"We want the players to be very level-headed, psychologically and emotionally stable. Euphoria or sadness [after a match] can lead to a drop in performance.
http://www.footballnews.com.au/forum/vi ... =7&t=53634

In the great footballing nations of the world, competitive games do not start until the U13 age group.
We are slowly moving away from that, with the introduction of SSF up to U11 but it will be a long time till we get the culture of winning out of the parents at the younger age groups.
Hey Mr Bobby Charlton Soccer School.
When I was a kid, Competitive football didn't start until Under 14s, the next level was U16 after this you were playing with the men. The kids want competitive football. Stuff the bloody parents

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Re: Jnr Ladders U/12-U/17

Post by hudsona »

Man City Over 35s wrote:
johnydep wrote:
Man City Over 35s wrote: Lots of leagues in the UK are doing tables for U8 upwards.
Thought that there is an issue in the UK with the poor development of junior players, the lack of choice for the National team and the amount of talent being brought in from overseas to fill the gaps.

Wonder why?
No issue with development in UK.That's media driven bullsht The National team perform poorly because of bad management. Not only that all nations have improved.
The other 3 divisions in the football league have become stronger than they ever used to be. Crowds are up, as well as wages.
Non-league clubs are the same. More & more non league clubs have youth academies, something they never dreamed of 10 years ago. Better facilities.
Just because Chelsea & Man U don't want Crawley's striker doesn't mean he has not developed.

Hearing lots different..this just one example:
Youth Development: Making a Splash

Neil Billingham
FourFourTwo - September, 2007

To see what the best of English youth football has to offer, FourFourTwo went along to the final of this year’s FA Youth Cup between Liverpool and Manchester United at Old Trafford. Half an hour before kick-off, and Sir Matt Busby Way is almost as busy as it is before a Premiership or Champions League fixture: evidence, if it were needed, of the massive interest in youth football on these shores.

Inside the stadium, most of the lower tier is full, and later on the official attendance is announced as 28,000. But whether it’s the expectant crowd, the nerves of playing in a final, or the edginess of a big North West derby, the football on offer leaves a lot to be desired. United’s number 10, Chris Fagan from Dublin, looks very promising. The striker has got pace and passion and regularly drops deep like Wayne Rooney, causing Liverpool numerous problems.

But in terms of poise, touch and class, only one player really stands out above the rest – Liverpool’s number eight. His name? Astrit Ajdarevic. He’s not English of course, but a Swedish junior international. It’s depressing for English football to think that of all the players on show, maybe the two with the best chance of making their first teams are Irish and Swedish.

After being 2-1 down from the first leg at Anfield, Liverpool score the only goal of the night at Old Trafford, making it 2-2 on aggregate, forcing a penalty shoot-out which the Merseysiders win 4-3. It’s Liverpool’s second successive FA Youth Cup triumph, and for their coach Steve Heighway, his last match as head of the club’s academy. He’s stepping down from the job after 19 years in which he groomed a host of players including Robbie Fowler, Steve McManaman, Michael Owen and Steven Gerrard. Heighway’s reasons for leaving become clear a week later when he lashes out at Liverpool boss Rafael Benitez in an article in The Times.

“In my view, I’m the best coach of 17 and 18-year-old players at this club,” he said. “But I no longer get the chance to do that. That’s crazy, that’s mad. It’s to the detriment of the young players at this club.”

Heighway’s main bone of contention is Benitez’s view that some of the youth players should leave the academy and join Liverpool’s reserve team, but Heighway believes reserve teams are a waste of time and that his best players should either stay with him at the academy or go into the first team, as Michael Owen famously did. The former Liverpool winger also urged football to engage in a serious debate about the damage being done to young players because of “outdated reserve football”. There needs to be a debate about a whole lot more than that.

Many of the people FourFourTwo has spoken to in the past month have talked at length about the numerous problems in youth football and have offered plenty of solutions – some obvious, some radical. But who is listening? Many of them are putting their faith in Richard Lewis’s review of young player development, hoping that something concrete will come from it. It won’t. The review has been conducted by the FA, The Premier League and the Football League and is intended to examine the framework and funding for young player development. But ask Sir Trevor Brooking about the review, and you can see why there’s little reason for optimism.

“In early 2006, we [the FA] asked the Premier League and the Football League if we could revamp youth development,” says Brooking with frustration. “They said no. We finally agreed to commission a review, between the three of us, but it was decided that it wasn’t going to be a football person who would do it.”

Richard Lewis is chief executive of Rugby Football League. It’s thought that Brooking wanted a football figure like Graham Taylor or David Pleat to head the review, but the Premier League and Football League were concerned the findings might not be in their best interests. Therein lies a fundamental flaw in how English football is governed. “We’ve got governing bodies like the Premier League who are regulating themselves,” says Brooking, who admits he has no idea what, if anything, will come of the Richard Lewis review. “Nowhere else would this be acceptable, but instead we have a situation where the football leagues are often working against the governing body. I’d like the FA to have more control of youth development, but it isn’t easy.”

Brooking is at least trying to have a positive affect, particularly in the five to 11 age group, an area largely ignored before 1997. The FA has just appointed two national and nine regional coaches in this age group, while a further 66 skills coaches for five to 11s are also now working in 12 counties. Brooking believes this age group shouldn’t just be playing football, and must be offered multi-skill, multi-sport programs at schools and clubs. Otherwise, many youngsters won’t have the co-ordination to make it as professional footballers. Indeed, a Department of Education study found that 60 percent of 11-year-olds are physically illiterate; they simply don’t possess the ABC of physical movement: agility, balance and co-ordination.

“English players aren’t good enough,” laments Brooking. “Look at the Premiership: only 40 percent of the starting line-ups are genuine home-grown players. In Italy, it’s 70 percent. People say the new UEFA regulations on home-grown players will help, but they won’t. The UEFA quotas can all be filled with foreign players. I can see a situation where all our academies are packed with future World Cup winners… but none of them will be English.”

While countries like Holland, France and Spain implement their well thought out, meticulously planned youth schemes, English football is still talking about what to do. Riddled with conflicting interests, contradictions and problems, youth development seems to be going in circles.

The professional clubs are unwilling to have their academies audited, so standards vary and quality control is non-existent. The Premier League is even more unwilling to spread its enormous wealth down to the grass roots. The game’s governing body appears toothless and incompetent.

“There’s no leadership in this country,” says Simon Clifford. “Who’s in charge? Is it the Premier League? The Football League? The Football Association? Nobody knows, so nothing gets done. I just do my own thing. We’ve achieved an awful at Futebol de Salao, and we’ve done it all without a Football Foundation grant or any assistance from the FA”. Clifford also has Socatots, a football-specific play program for children from six months to five years old. He’s a busy man.

“I just get on with it” says Clifford. “Everybody else just seems to talk about youth development. But will we still be talking about it in four or eight years time? Because if we are, I honestly think England will be struggling to qualify for major tournaments by then.”

As alarming as that may sound, it’s a view which is shared by many in the game today. From radicals like Simon Clifford, to establishment figures such as Sir Trevor Brooking, to experts in youth development like Dave Parnaby, they all believe that if something isn’t done soon, English football and consequently the national team will pay a very heavy price. Could the last English player to leave the dressing room please turn out the lights?

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Re: Jnr Ladders U/12-U/17

Post by Ciudad Juarez »

i remember playing as a kid in the u10s or u12s, cant remember exactly, in the days where there was no internet and no "information", tables etc. i also remember one day seeing our table 3/4 through the season... generally wasnt published anywhere but somehow our coach had it. i remember we were toward the bottom of the table but i also remember how excited i was that "my team" was on that ladder with our results, just like the big men were that i watched on saturdays.

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Re: Jnr Ladders U/12-U/17

Post by Željko Jurin »

And this doesn't happen with the younger age groups where there is no points or tables ??
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Re: Jnr Ladders U/12-U/17

Post by Ciudad Juarez »

You miss my point zeljo
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Re: Jnr Ladders U/12-U/17

Post by Bresciano »

Watched the Playford U16s last weekend who were promoted this year. Happened to be going past so stopped to have a look. Was really impressed with the way they played. Everyone plays their role and the team plays with a common goal. Some wonderful talent as well and the style of play was a pleasure to watch. Congrats to the coach who has created a team that plays as a team and congrats to the players as well.

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Re: Jnr Ladders U/12-U/17

Post by manutd64 »

kikit2me wrote:
gerr8rd wrote:better version of 16A:

Image

.....just swap Playford with Adelaide City.....better GF

Looking for a position at the FFSA? I believe there is an opening!!! :oops: :mrgreen:

seeing you have done such a good job why dont you do the rest of the age groups you must have a lot of spare time

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Re: Jnr Ladders U/12-U/17

Post by PhilDunphy »

manutd64 wrote:
kikit2me wrote:
gerr8rd wrote:better version of 16A:

Image

.....just swap Playford with Adelaide City.....better GF

Looking for a position at the FFSA? I believe there is an opening!!! :oops: :mrgreen:

seeing you have done such a good job why dont you do the rest of the age groups you must have a lot of spare time
only interested in the 16's mate :wink:

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Re: Jnr Ladders U/12-U/17

Post by johnydep »

Man City Over 35s wrote:
johnydep wrote:
Man City Over 35s wrote: Lots of leagues in the UK are doing tables for U8 upwards.
Thought that there is an issue in the UK with the poor development of junior players, the lack of choice for the National team and the amount of talent being brought in from overseas to fill the gaps.

Wonder why?
No issue with development in UK.That's media driven bullsht The National team perform poorly because of bad management. Not only that all nations have improved.
The other 3 divisions in the football league have become stronger than they ever used to be. Crowds are up, as well as wages.
Non-league clubs are the same. More & more non league clubs have youth academies, something they never dreamed of 10 years ago. Better facilities.
Just because Chelsea & Man U don't want Crawley's striker doesn't mean he has not developed.

Internally, English leagues are booming. Money coming in is so good the clubs are able to bring in players from all over the world, including juniors.

Internationally there is a problem when it comes to tournaments against other nations. The media doesn't control the tournaments, it's all about the national talent. http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010 ... nt-england
About 1% of boys who join an English academy aged nine become professional footballers.

England's teams at senior and youth level have failed to win any major trophies since the academy system was established.

As English football looks to come to terms with another tournament failure...

Speaking last week (July 2010), former sports minister Richard Caborn called for radical change. "We can't just deal with the symptoms, we have to get to the root of the problem. English football and the Premier League have to come together to develop young English players."
Though there are a few that don't believe or care about anything other than the EPL, if that's the case England have nothing to worry about.

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Re: Jnr Ladders U/12-U/17

Post by on-side »

They have now posted the JPL ladders after Round 3 - however if you look at them closely some of the age groups are only after Round 2!

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Re: Jnr Ladders U/12-U/17

Post by Green_Manalishi »

on-side wrote:They have now posted the JPL ladders after Round 3 - however if you look at them closely some of the age groups are only after Round 2!
http://www.ffsa.com.au/applications/ass ... nd%203.pdf

I think they've actually missed out the Round 2 results from those affected tables.
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Re: Jnr Ladders U/12-U/17

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:roll:

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Re: Jnr Ladders U/12-U/17

Post by nobby gnome »

At the moment the ladders are a complete waste of time for the older age groups as most of the results are not included. Surely they must have the results and it is not that hard to include them

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Re: Jnr Ladders U/12-U/17

Post by Rover1964 »

We have moved to England 9 months ago and my son is playing for a championship clubs academy. He was playing in Adelaide last year for an under 19s team in the premier league @ 14 years old and played almost the full season before we moved over to England. I'll tell you all on here right now the game here at un15s which he now plays in, is miles faster than playing un19s in Adelaide. The reason is based on ex-pro footballers coaching (not dads playing there sons) with thousands of young lads playing on every street corner and the news papers covered with clippings of footballers all over them. Footballers in this country are treated like gods. The other thing I would like to add is the number of trialist brought in ever week by the clubs which makes the lads they already have keeped on their toes. Up to the age of 12 years of age theres no full size games, all 4 v 4 or 8 v 8 as they get older and right threw until youth team NO league table. So I dont think it matters about league tables because everyone knows who the strong sides are, but it all about development however the academy directors love to beat there rivals don't they?
one more thing, We have just had 15 lads come over from Australia on trial and the one thing I am hearing is they all hold on to the ball to long. a good football has a good first touch and already knows where he is going to pass it to. The big thing here and why the game in England is so fast is because of the PASS and MOVE. Not taking on 2 or 3 players before getting rid of it.
Well thats what I think anyway... have a good one !!
ps- never let your kids give up by what other people say or do !!

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Re: Jnr Ladders U/12-U/17

Post by Željko Jurin »

Thanks Rover, good luck with your son....

Interesting, no full pitches until 12yo, no tables until youth, which I assume is 16 or older.....

Atleast we have 1 out of 2 happening, and if it was up to some people, we wouldnt even have that !!!!

But hey, what would the Dutch know ......
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Re: Jnr Ladders U/12-U/17

Post by johnydep »

Rover1964 wrote:We have moved to England 9 months ago and my son is playing for a championship clubs academy. He was playing in Adelaide last year for an under 19s team in the premier league @ 14 years old and played almost the full season before we moved over to England. I'll tell you all on here right now the game here at un15s which he now plays in, is miles faster than playing un19s in Adelaide.
The reason is based on ex-pro footballers coaching (not dads playing there sons) with thousands of young lads playing on every street corner and the news papers covered with clippings of footballers all over them. Footballers in this country are treated like gods.
The other thing I would like to add is the number of trialist brought in ever week by the clubs which makes the lads they already have keep on their toes.
Up to the age of 12 years of age there's no full size games, all 4 v 4 or 8 v 8 as they get older and right threw until youth team NO league table. So I don't think it matters about league tables because everyone knows who the strong sides are, but it all about development however the academy directors love to beat there rivals don't they?
One more thing, We have just had 15 lads come over from Australia on trial and the one thing I am hearing is they all hold on to the ball to long. a good football has a good first touch and already knows where he is going to pass it to. The big thing here and why the game in England is so fast is because of the PASS and MOVE. Not taking on 2 or 3 players before getting rid of it.
Well that's what I think anyway... have a good one !!
ps- never let your kids give up by what other people say or do !!
The Federations have to help get more people through the gates of local games, do that and then footballers here will start to get more recognition.

Good luck to your son, and yourself.

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Re: Jnr Ladders U/12-U/17

Post by Bomber »

Rover1964 wrote:We have moved to England 9 months ago and my son is playing for a championship clubs academy. He was playing in Adelaide last year for an under 19s team in the premier league @ 14 years old and played almost the full season before we moved over to England. I'll tell you all on here right now the game here at un15s which he now plays in, is miles faster than playing un19s in Adelaide. The reason is based on ex-pro footballers coaching (not dads playing there sons) with thousands of young lads playing on every street corner and the news papers covered with clippings of footballers all over them. Footballers in this country are treated like gods. The other thing I would like to add is the number of trialist brought in ever week by the clubs which makes the lads they already have keeped on their toes. Up to the age of 12 years of age theres no full size games, all 4 v 4 or 8 v 8 as they get older and right threw until youth team NO league table. So I dont think it matters about league tables because everyone knows who the strong sides are, but it all about development however the academy directors love to beat there rivals don't they?
one more thing, We have just had 15 lads come over from Australia on trial and the one thing I am hearing is they all hold on to the ball to long. a good football has a good first touch and already knows where he is going to pass it to. The big thing here and why the game in England is so fast is because of the PASS and MOVE. Not taking on 2 or 3 players before getting rid of it.
Well thats what I think anyway... have a good one !!
ps- never let your kids give up by what other people say or do !!
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Re: Jnr Ladders U/12-U/17

Post by Green_Manalishi »

Rover1964 wrote:.........Up to the age of 12 years of age theres no full size games, all 4 v 4 or 8 v 8 as they get older and right threw until youth team NO league table........
Obviously varies around the country and depends on which competition they are playing in.

Tandridge League has tables for Under 9s!!!!

http://www.ourkidssports.com/Results/liveTable/id/1316
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Re: Jnr Ladders U/12-U/17

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Rover 64 , post here in 5 years which of those under 15' s actually go on and make it

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Re: Jnr Ladders U/12-U/17

Post by SID »

It's changing the junior game for the sake of change..... Why play 4 vs 4 ????? Or are they going to suddenly change the senior game to that coz the right back doesn't get enough touches???? The game is going backwards because of continuous change and parents complaints coz little johnny doesn't get enough touches or game time for his 500 bucks.... People shouldn't listen to crap on ere , yes there are small sided games throughout the world but pro clubs play 11 vs 11 and always will coz that's what the kids have to learn.....

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Re: Jnr Ladders U/12-U/17

Post by G-Star »

johnydep wrote:
Rover1964 wrote:We have moved to England 9 months ago and my son is playing for a championship clubs academy. He was playing in Adelaide last year for an under 19s team in the premier league @ 14 years old and played almost the full season before we moved over to England. I'll tell you all on here right now the game here at un15s which he now plays in, is miles faster than playing un19s in Adelaide.
The reason is based on ex-pro footballers coaching (not dads playing there sons) with thousands of young lads playing on every street corner and the news papers covered with clippings of footballers all over them. Footballers in this country are treated like gods.
The other thing I would like to add is the number of trialist brought in ever week by the clubs which makes the lads they already have keep on their toes.
Up to the age of 12 years of age there's no full size games, all 4 v 4 or 8 v 8 as they get older and right threw until youth team NO league table. So I don't think it matters about league tables because everyone knows who the strong sides are, but it all about development however the academy directors love to beat there rivals don't they?
One more thing, We have just had 15 lads come over from Australia on trial and the one thing I am hearing is they all hold on to the ball to long. a good football has a good first touch and already knows where he is going to pass it to. The big thing here and why the game in England is so fast is because of the PASS and MOVE. Not taking on 2 or 3 players before getting rid of it.
Well that's what I think anyway... have a good one !!
ps- never let your kids give up by what other people say or do !!
The Federations have to help get more people through the gates of local games, do that and then footballers here will start to get more recognition.

Good luck to your son, and yourself.
Well said mate

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Re: Jnr Ladders U/12-U/17

Post by Big Mac »

Rover1964 wrote:We have moved to England 9 months ago and my son is playing for a championship clubs academy. He was playing in Adelaide last year for an under 19s team in the premier league @ 14 years old and played almost the full season before we moved over to England. I'll tell you all on here right now the game here at un15s which he now plays in, is miles faster than playing un19s in Adelaide. The reason is based on ex-pro footballers coaching (not dads playing there sons) with thousands of young lads playing on every street corner and the news papers covered with clippings of footballers all over them. Footballers in this country are treated like gods. The other thing I would like to add is the number of trialist brought in ever week by the clubs which makes the lads they already have keeped on their toes. Up to the age of 12 years of age theres no full size games, all 4 v 4 or 8 v 8 as they get older and right threw until youth team NO league table. So I dont think it matters about league tables because everyone knows who the strong sides are, but it all about development however the academy directors love to beat there rivals don't they?
one more thing, We have just had 15 lads come over from Australia on trial and the one thing I am hearing is they all hold on to the ball to long. a good football has a good first touch and already knows where he is going to pass it to. The big thing here and why the game in England is so fast is because of the PASS and MOVE. Not taking on 2 or 3 players before getting rid of it.
Well thats what I think anyway... have a good one !!
ps- never let your kids give up by what other people say or do !!
You're not comparing apples with apples here. Your Son is in a Championship Academy side, AU's Academy for 12-13 yr olds last season had an ex pro Coaching them too.
Without "Dads" coaching at local junior level we would have no game at all, and you dont have to be an ex-pro to have knowledge and be an excellent teacher.
If a player aspires to be "elite", or shows exceptional talent, there are pathways they can choose or get selected for to get "Pro" coaching.
Comparing to U19's Prems. is probably not an accurate comparison either, it is not the Elite League for that age group, and and is full of 15-17yr olds anyway.
Anyway, good luck to your Son.
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Re: Jnr Ladders U/12-U/17

Post by rabbit »

Well said too mate.... :wink:

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Re: Jnr Ladders U/12-U/17

Post by SID »

well said Mac

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Re: Jnr Ladders U/12-U/17

Post by rabbit »

rabbit wrote:Well said too mate.... :wink:
Just to clarify.....I was referring to BigMac.... :wink:

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Re: Jnr Ladders U/12-U/17

Post by spooky1972 »

U/13 B

P W L D GD PTS

Modbury Jets 4 4 0 0 24 12
Toros 4 3 0 1 19 10
Abe 4 3 0 1 14 10
Croydon 4 3 0 1 12 10
Raiders 4 1 2 1 -3 4
Birk 4 1 3 0 -4 3
Sth Ade 4 1 3 0 -17 3
Playford 4 1 3 0 -19 3
Strikers 4 0 2 2 -2 2
Sturt 4 0 3 0 -17 0

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Re: Jnr Ladders U/12-U/17

Post by blue moon »

SID wrote:It's changing the junior game for the sake of change..... Why play 4 vs 4 ????? Or are they going to suddenly change the senior game to that coz the right back doesn't get enough touches???? The game is going backwards because of continuous change and parents complaints coz little johnny doesn't get enough touches or game time for his 500 bucks.... People shouldn't listen to crap on ere , yes there are small sided games throughout the world but pro clubs play 11 vs 11 and always will coz that's what the kids have to learn.....
summed up nicely.

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Re: Jnr Ladders U/12-U/17

Post by johnydep »

SID wrote:It's changing the junior game for the sake of change..... Why play 4 vs 4 ????? Or are they going to suddenly change the senior game to that coz the right back doesn't get enough touches???? The game is going backwards because of continuous change and parents complaints coz little johnny doesn't get enough touches or game time for his 500 bucks.... People shouldn't listen to crap on ere , yes there are small sided games throughout the world but pro clubs play 11 vs 11 and always will coz that's what the kids have to learn.....
Everyone is allowed an opinion, especially if they've researched the topic.

http://www.footballnews.com.au/forum/vi ... =7&t=53634

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Re: Jnr Ladders U/12-U/17

Post by Stitch This »

SID wrote:........ People shouldn't listen to crap on ere , yes there are small sided games throughout the world but pro clubs play 11 vs 11 and always will coz that's what the kids have to learn.....
Rover1964 wrote:We have moved to England 9 months ago and my son is playing for a championship clubs academy........ Up to the age of 12 years of age theres no full size games, all 4 v 4 or 8 v 8 as they get older and right threw until youth team NO league table. ........
:?
Time for some righteous indignation

stiring the porridge
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Re: Jnr Ladders U/12-U/17

Post by stiring the porridge »

Stitch This wrote:
SID wrote:........ People shouldn't listen to crap on ere , yes there are small sided games throughout the world but pro clubs play 11 vs 11 and always will coz that's what the kids have to learn.....
Rover1964 wrote:We have moved to England 9 months ago and my son is playing for a championship clubs academy........ Up to the age of 12 years of age theres no full size games, all 4 v 4 or 8 v 8 as they get older and right threw until youth team NO league table. ........
:?

And England have won how many world cups with this system?

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