You blamed Maradona for a hand ball that the referee didnt see in 1986, any particular player you blame for ball that crossed line which the referee again failed to see???
For the record, the disallowed goal would have changed the game a little, but the result wouldnt have changed. Germany in a league of their own tonight. Englands failure to deal with the conuter attacking Germans was funny to be honest. What was Gareth Barry thinking in the last goal??? and James diving out the way for the 3rd was laughable. These are top flight players who get paid monstrous amount of monies and they were made to look 2nd rate, embarassing. Oh well, an easy group they should of finished 1st in, play Ghana in the round of 16 and would of been on their way but the writing was on the wall from their first game. Another coach, another casualty for England id imagine. Next victim, Argentina or Mexico???
Hawkesy wrote:COLOSSUS...........Congratulations, you have won the title fair a square.
Lampard's goal maybe wouldn't of changed the result, but it would of made the game closer. England were buzzing at that point, but half-time came too quickly.
Then England played like Greece in the 2nd half and got raped.
El Capitano wrote:Lampard's goal maybe wouldn't of changed the result, but it would of made the game closer. England were buzzing at that point, but half-time came too quickly.
Then England played like Greece in the 2nd half and got raped.
Greece didnt get raped to anyone by that scoreline, maybe Australia would of been a better comparison....identical comparison only at least Australia can say they got raped minus 1 grenache But good bait el capitaaaaaaaanooo, el cannavaaaaaaarooo
Hawkesy wrote:COLOSSUS...........Congratulations, you have won the title fair a square.
They get played mega bucks because they play in a league that peopel watch something that the other mob don't. If their league is soooo good why do all the top players want to go to the epl instead?
However I do agree with you that the 3 and 4 goal were well taken. Not too many England players were running back to help which is why the scorers had space, but hey that happens.
And no we don't blame Maradona for the hand of god, we blame the 'officials' for being sucked in with the 'hand of god'. but we do blame the coke snorting, cheating, lying, fat twat who seems to have more lives than a cat for using the hand and then saying he didn't. Still no anger here.
Adelaidepie Julian
Notts County Football Club the oldest and still the best. Black and White magic
adelaidepie wrote:They get played mega bucks because they play in a league that peopel watch something that the other mob don't. If their league is soooo good why do all the top players want to go to the epl instead?
Their league is very good, just more money in your league and thats probably why the players go to the EPL, but the point is, your league is the top league at the expense of your National team, thats all im saying. Also, maybe your players want a big pay packet to play for their country??? No heart in what ive seen in these performances to be honest and we know they are capable!!!
And no we don't blame Maradona for the hand of god, we blame the 'officials' for being sucked in with the 'hand of god'. but we do blame the coke snorting, cheating, lying, fat twat who seems to have more lives than a cat for using the hand and then saying he didn't.
and then
Still no anger here
I would have never guessed
Hawkesy wrote:COLOSSUS...........Congratulations, you have won the title fair a square.
But yes COLOSSUS I agree with you our EPL is more important to some than the national team and I think that's why some countries at one point oranother banned the number of overseas players because of this.
I also believe not just for England but most european countries their top players are playing too many games and hence too many teams are going into these competitions with players injured or just getting over their injuries.
Add that to the top 'minow' teams have their top players now playing in the top leagues and this is making the euopean and world cup all that much closer.
Who would pick the number of 'better know' teams would be out so early?
Notts County Football Club the oldest and still the best. Black and White magic
COLOSSUS wrote:You blamed Maradona for a hand ball that the referee didnt see in 1986, any particular player you blame for ball that crossed line which the referee again failed to see???
For the record, the disallowed goal would have changed the game a little, but the result wouldnt have changed. Germany in a league of their own tonight. Englands failure to deal with the conuter attacking Germans was funny to be honest. What was Gareth Barry thinking in the last goal??? and James diving out the way for the 3rd was laughable. These are top flight players who get paid monstrous amount of monies and they were made to look 2nd rate, embarassing. Oh well, an easy group they should of finished 1st in, play Ghana in the round of 16 and would of been on their way but the writing was on the wall from their first game. Another coach, another casualty for England id imagine. Next victim, Argentina or Mexico???
Col indulging in a little schadenfreude??? Since we've all given it large to Greece, I suppose you're entitled.
You are somewhat disingenuous though to, in one breath, claim that the result wouldn't have changed, then in the next, point out that the Germans scored on the counter attack. Had the game been 2-2 then there's no great need to push, therefore it's unlikely we would have left ourselves open to the very counter attack you talk about.
The fact is nobody will ever know what would have happened if the goal had been allowed and that's all we'll ever be able to say. I must admit, I did laugh though, when we were chasing the game and Capello took Defoe off and put Heskey on. If nothing else, that sealed his fate.
Victor Meldrew wrote:A decent govt..... like uk.
"The game is about glory, doing things in style and with a flourish, going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom."
Danny Blanchflower
that the English haven't done anything useful in football for almost 50 years... they are simply CRAP
I'd like to, but I can't really argue against that. The sad thing from my perspective is that we've had a succession of managers, apart from a short period when we had Robson, Venables and Hoddle, who have failed to let the players actually express themselves. If we're going to get done, at least it should be with all guns blazing, not meek and pathetic like the Italians, French and Greeks.
Victor Meldrew wrote:A decent govt..... like uk.
"The game is about glory, doing things in style and with a flourish, going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom."
Danny Blanchflower
If the linesman was on the line I would agree with you, but he was with the second last defender like he shouldn't have been. The decision might have been wrong, but you can't expect him to guess.
that the English haven't done anything useful in football for almost 50 years... they are simply CRAP
hopefully they will now realize that yes this is a fact, and will start to do something about it, i cant understand why they have this great expectation , like you say its been fifty years , at the end of the day this has been one of englands worst world cup displays ever. out of four game they would be lucky to have played sixty minutes of good football
You can't argue the game would have changed the game had Lampard's goal been allowed, but you can't say England would have won. They were rippeed apart until the set piece goal from Upton and could have been down 3-0 very easy.
Reality was that all over the park England were outplayed and this sort of result has been coming given the displays prior to the World Cup and the three group games.
Reality is in 2010 English football is behind the leading nations and cannot call itself football world power. Talk in the press of sacking Capello won't solve anything. Changing England coaches is as effective as moving the deck chairs on the Titanic, they is still bloody big hole under the surface. Lets face it apart from Italia 90 and the 1986 Euro's in England they have consistently failed to perform. The time is right for a revolution in English football and begin the slow road back. Rather than splashing mega millions on foreign coaches I would rather see those funds invested in the best youth coaches and acedemy from around the world and radically overhaul how young English players are coached. It has been there for all to see that the English players simply cannot match the world for technique, flexibility, tactical awareness and movement off the ball. The FA need to put their hand up and say we have a crisis and admit that thet are on the wrong path.
Mind you the same supporters who booed England off, will go home and in just over a months time will sit back in the EPL ground and cheer on their club sides, who will be 70% non English and wonder why England are so bad. Yes the large number of foreign players is damaging but maybe the young English players simply aren't good enough due to poor coaching and development.
Will the FA instigate what is needed to drag English players and clubs out of the mess, no it will simply do what it has done for a long time FA.
It pains to say it, but the German's where far too good last night. We got in the game for 15 minutes and besides that the German's had the better of us. Like many have mentioned I think if we got the equaliser we would have dominated, but half time would have calmed the storm and the Germans would have regrouped and taken over, as they did.
The problem with English football is the creative flamboyant players which make the league what it is are all foreigners. Players like Lampard, Terry, Gerard, Rooney look great, but maybe it is the great players around them that make them shine. I don't know, I am just clutching at straws to come up with an excuse why we are so crap.
I truly thought we had the team to win this World Cup, another failed championship, another dubious decision and England go home. FFS
i think youre actually correct. example joe cole, all of england is crying out for his "creativity" to play. fact of the matter is he is not that creative, he's just the most technically gifted of the english. but even he isn't good enough to carry that position for chelsea which is why they have brought in so many midfielders over the years. deco malouda etc. all forcing cole out of the team, as a result he doesnt improve... so how can he be expected to carry at the world cup?
check out how good rooney became once ronaldo left. because he became the focus. foreigners are killing their national teams chances.
Mato wrote:i think youre actually correct. example joe cole, all of england is crying out for his "creativity" to play. fact of the matter is he is not that creative, he's just the most technically gifted of the english. but even he isn't good enough to carry that position for chelsea which is why they have brought in so many midfielders over the years. deco malouda etc. all forcing cole out of the team, as a result he doesnt improve... so how can he be expected to carry at the world cup?
check out how good rooney became once ronaldo left. because he became the focus. foreigners are killing their national teams chances.
Combination of a number of factors:
1. Too many overseas players.
2. Too many games for elite clubs.
3. Poor coaching at junior levels.
4. Style of games among majority of sides no condusive to success at international level.
5. Young English players who cannot get a run in English clubs should look overseas rather than drop down divisions ikn England. Too many of the promising young players are loaned out to Championship sides where the quality of football drops away.
6. Radical overhaul of acedemies and junior coaching. Focus on technique and touch less on winning.
Mato wrote:i think youre actually correct. example joe cole, all of england is crying out for his "creativity" to play. fact of the matter is he is not that creative, he's just the most technically gifted of the english. but even he isn't good enough to carry that position for chelsea which is why they have brought in so many midfielders over the years. deco malouda etc. all forcing cole out of the team, as a result he doesnt improve... so how can he be expected to carry at the world cup?
check out how good rooney became once ronaldo left. because he became the focus. foreigners are killing their national teams chances.
Combination of a number of factors:
1. Too many overseas players.
2. Too many games for elite clubs.
3. Poor coaching at junior levels.
4. Style of games among majority of sides no condusive to success at international level.
5. Young English players who cannot get a run in English clubs should look overseas rather than drop down divisions ikn England. Too many of the promising young players are loaned out to Championship sides where the quality of football drops away.
6. Radical overhaul of acedemies and junior coaching. Focus on technique and touch less on winning.
I think you're both more or less right but the problem with the English players like Joe Cole is, they get developed by a West Ham type of mid to lower table club but, as soon as they show promise, they're sold to a Man U, Chelsea etc where they languish on the bench. I understand them chasing the money but it doesn't improve their football to be not playing. Until the PL forces clubs to play a certain amount of English players I can't see the situation changing, but whether that would or could happen I'm not sure.
Victor Meldrew wrote:A decent govt..... like uk.
"The game is about glory, doing things in style and with a flourish, going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom."
Danny Blanchflower
England crashed out of the World Cup on Sunday but Mark Holmes feels the coaching culture in our county is more to blame than Fabio Capello.
So, England are out again. There wasn't quite so much expectation this time - the struggles in the group stage brought most people down to earth - but there's still likely to be a sense of shock sweeping the nation after a crushing 4-1 defeat to Germany.
It's not a feeling I'm experiencing. I spoke on TEAMtalk's Podcast before a ball was kicked predicting a last-16 exit and I didn't see anything against Germany I didn't already know.
England cannot pass the ball the way the top nations do, they do not cherish possession, they do not understand movement, space or positions the way the top nations do. We come unstuck every time we face a decent side and it happened again in South Africa.
Fabio Capello tried his best to get us playing the right way and perhaps that was his biggest mistake - England's players simply do not possess the qualities to play a passing game. The penny seemed to drop for the Italian after the Algeria game when he spoke of the need to play games as though they were in the Premier League.
A league that, despite often lauded as the best in the world, sees teams such as my own Stoke survive comfortably because they are big, powerful and strong.
A league becoming more full each season of African players - a continent whose teams performed woefully at the World Cup compared to the technically-gifted South American outfits.
The deficiencies of the football in our nation is masked by the success of the Premier League's big four in Europe but perhaps that will change soon - Inter Milan won the Champions League with a side full of South Americans - and the Football Assocation will finally pump the money into grass roots football that it has needed for so long.
They can pay out any number of millions a year to another top manager but Italiab, British, Brazil or whatever, he is doomed to failure until we change our attitude towards youth football.
From the moment a child can kick a ball he is urged onto the football field by his enthusiastic parents. And the importance of winning whilst on that field is drilled into the child.
The managers, the parents and ultimately the children are only interested in victory and, much like in the Premier League, it does not matter how that is achieved.
Hands up if you've ever watched a youth match finish 15-0 because of the fast forward running onto long balls over the top for 90 minutes. I know I have - and it would not happen abroad.
Children are taught the importance of possession, movement and positional awareness and in many nations they do not even play organised matches until a late age. If they learn to cherish possession, to find space and understand their role then that is the real victory.
Unfortunately that attitude does not exist in England and so there should be no sense of shock at the failures of the so-called Golden Generation. Our players are talented but they do not understand the game they way the Germans do.
And it doesn't matter how many more world-class players we produce, what manager is in charge or what tactics he decides to adopt, England will never be a force in world football until changes are made not at the top, but at the very bottom.
ozzie owl wrote:Article from the Teamtalk web site.
England crashed out of the World Cup on Sunday but Mark Holmes feels the coaching culture in our county is more to blame than Fabio Capello.
So, England are out again. There wasn't quite so much expectation this time - the struggles in the group stage brought most people down to earth - but there's still likely to be a sense of shock sweeping the nation after a crushing 4-1 defeat to Germany.
It's not a feeling I'm experiencing. I spoke on TEAMtalk's Podcast before a ball was kicked predicting a last-16 exit and I didn't see anything against Germany I didn't already know.
England cannot pass the ball the way the top nations do, they do not cherish possession, they do not understand movement, space or positions the way the top nations do. We come unstuck every time we face a decent side and it happened again in South Africa.
Fabio Capello tried his best to get us playing the right way and perhaps that was his biggest mistake - England's players simply do not possess the qualities to play a passing game. The penny seemed to drop for the Italian after the Algeria game when he spoke of the need to play games as though they were in the Premier League.
A league that, despite often lauded as the best in the world, sees teams such as my own Stoke survive comfortably because they are big, powerful and strong.
A league becoming more full each season of African players - a continent whose teams performed woefully at the World Cup compared to the technically-gifted South American outfits.
The deficiencies of the football in our nation is masked by the success of the Premier League's big four in Europe but perhaps that will change soon - Inter Milan won the Champions League with a side full of South Americans - and the Football Assocation will finally pump the money into grass roots football that it has needed for so long.
They can pay out any number of millions a year to another top manager but Italiab, British, Brazil or whatever, he is doomed to failure until we change our attitude towards youth football.
From the moment a child can kick a ball he is urged onto the football field by his enthusiastic parents. And the importance of winning whilst on that field is drilled into the child.
The managers, the parents and ultimately the children are only interested in victory and, much like in the Premier League, it does not matter how that is achieved.
Hands up if you've ever watched a youth match finish 15-0 because of the fast forward running onto long balls over the top for 90 minutes. I know I have - and it would not happen abroad.
Children are taught the importance of possession, movement and positional awareness and in many nations they do not even play organised matches until a late age. If they learn to cherish possession, to find space and understand their role then that is the real victory.
Unfortunately that attitude does not exist in England and so there should be no sense of shock at the failures of the so-called Golden Generation. Our players are talented but they do not understand the game they way the Germans do.
And it doesn't matter how many more world-class players we produce, what manager is in charge or what tactics he decides to adopt, England will never be a force in world football until changes are made not at the top, but at the very bottom.
Sadly, it's the same thing I've been banging on about for the last 20 years and it's true in England and Australia. However, purely by sheer weight of numbers, I think we produce enough players capable of performances at the top level, but we select the right players for a 433 or 451 and then, bizarrely, play them in a 442. You can blame the orchestra all you like but it's the conductor who sets the tempo.
Victor Meldrew wrote:A decent govt..... like uk.
"The game is about glory, doing things in style and with a flourish, going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom."
Danny Blanchflower
COLOSSUS wrote:You blamed Maradona for a hand ball that the referee didnt see in 1986, any particular player you blame for ball that crossed line which the referee again failed to see???
They should blame the German keeper - he knew it was over the line, he should have been honest and told the ref...yeaaah right!
Greece didnt get raped to anyone by that scoreline, maybe Australia would of been a better comparison....identical comparison only at least Australia can say they got raped minus 1 grenache 
But good bait el capitaaaaaaaanooo, el cannavaaaaaaarooo 
